cross-posted from: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/1335364
Oh hey, we're back to where it all begun. Only took a couple million displaced.
cross-posted from: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/1335364
Oh hey, we're back to where it all begun. Only took a couple million displaced.
Bruh nato sending ukraine weapons is a good argument to point to when asked how nato keeps this war going. We're not pro Russia, neither are we pro nato. We want an end to the bloodshed, where as you look at thousands of dead Ukrainians and then pretend this is a good thing because you care so much about Poland or something. You wipe a solid argument off the table because you gave it some vague explenation (show members they'd stand by them? Even if that were the reason, it doesn't justify the tens of thousands of dead you seem to not take into account at all).
Read the article mate.
NATO literally proposed to Ukraine to give up territory to stop the war. Answer this, and don't dodge the question: Why would NATO ever put forth that proposition if they wanted the war to keep going?
Bruh you havent read anything since the third grade. It's about how a nato official blurted something out for which he almost emediatly had to apologize. 'Not ruling out' is just a first sign of NATO coming to terms with the fact they'll run out of Ukrainians sooner or later. If this war ends, it'll be through negotiations, and like it or not, Russia has the stronger position. But you're happy to keep throwing bodies into the meat grinder.
He wanted them to consider it, otherwise he wouldn't have said it. This is not some guy in the pub having a chat with his friends and he "blurted it out" over some beers. These are bureaucrats with highly controlled chains of command.
He did that after the Ukrainian backlash.
I'm not going to debate who's wining, since you're going to pull out some RT stats. What I'm arguing is the point tankies keep pushing that NATO is somehow pushing Ukrainians into a war against their will, and that NATO is not open to a negotiation to end the war.
You had literally a NATO official suggesting Ukraine to give up territory to stop the war. Ukrainians getting outraged, and him having to backpedal.
Hell, at first you said NATO made a proposition, nicely ignoring that they didn't do such a thing at all. As I said, and as we agree, it's a nato official, blurting something out.
NATO has pushed ukraine deeper and deeper I to this conflict, casualties be damned. You speak as if the Ukrainian working class can't wait for the opportunity to get blown to pieces by artillery for some bourgeoisie state that's already stelling of the nations assets to the highest western bidder. NATO forces the Ukrainians to use counter insurgency tactis they've deployed for war crimes in the global south, expecting Ukrainian draftees to be so filled with patriotism (that, or hatred for those damned asiatic hordes) they'd happily drive into a minefield for Zelensky.
Had NATO been open to ending the war, the war would have already ended. Yet they keep sending weapons upon weapons (to what end? Do you really think ukraine is going to get crimea back? As the famed counteroffensive should point out, they're no where close, and they'll never be.)
What I'm willing to give you is that maybe now, NATO pencil pushers see the reality of the situation on the field, that the tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Ukrainians they've sent to their deaths died for absolutely nothing. Maybe now, with this nato official blurting out the thought/proposing it through a rigourus chain of command, the Ukrainians realise NATO fed them to the meat grinder to advance its own geopolitical intrests. Even if Now NATO starts to carfully think about negotiations, that doesn't undo the fact that NATO has kept this conflict going for far longer than it needed to, out of sheer self (but mainly American, see the Nord stream pipeline) intrests.
Edit, said keystone instead of nordstream pipeline
Oh shit nvm you're that 'NATO is giving guarantees to eastern Europe' guy lmao.