Do you understand that a law banning slavery is a piece of regulation? Would you agree that society is more free with that regulation, or less free?
The same logic applies here. The market is free when everyone can freely participate in it. Which means that we have to stop (regulate) those who want to prevent people from participating (i.e. monopolists).
Look man, good on you for understanding that "free markets", the fundamental ideology of capitalism, is antagonistic to people's liberty. Its just wild that you acknowledge that but then go on to insist we should keep doing free markets and capitalism.
Free markets and capitalism will always both ideologically and materially put people into power who disagree with you, people who want to deregulate the market and restrict people's freedom. In order to actually do what you want you must shut those people, the bourgeoisie, out of power. It doesnt matter if you do that through revolutionary violence like the communists or through peaceful democracy like so many Latin american nations. You will be met with violence from the bourgeoisie. Doesnt matter if all you want is an actually regulated free market.
"free markets", the fundamental ideology of capitalism
Wrong already. The fundamental ideology of capitalism is that people with capital reap the profits (through control of means of production, but also means of living). You can shorten that to "rich get richer". But nothing related to markets.
In fact, there were several instances of capitalist economies without a free market. Nazi Germany comes to mind - the government bought weapons, supplies, and everything else, but they were contracted from private corporations controlled only by "desirable" individuals. Other wartime economies apply here too, to a lesser degree - with rationing but still private ownership.
And yes, capitalists are always afraid of a genuinely free market, because they don't want competition.
The fundamental ideology of capitalism is that people with capital reap the profits
That's not an ideology. That's the actual material conditions of capitalism. An ideology exists in people's minds. Its the justification for those material conditions. The capitalist justification is "the freer the markets the freer the people". Sometimes people see through that bullshit and they adopt a new ideology, usually some variant of fascism.
The Nazi's and many fascists will cannibalize sectors of the market that dont get along with the new regime. This isn't a particularly novel observation.
Its like you understand that everything the capitalists told you is bullshit but you still want the fake goal they set up. So you kept the label of "free market" and slapped it on "well regulated market" and are pretending like you've done some clever judo. Everyone will call you a market socialist because that's what you want.
My problem is you're calling a well regulated market a "free market" when thats universally accepted as the total opposite definiton of the phrase. I dont know why you insist on calling market socialism "free markets". You want market socialism for a free society.
Free markets are antithetical to a free society as you pointed out before.
Free market is the divine right of capitalism.
What a perfect somersault.
Do you understand that a law banning slavery is a piece of regulation? Would you agree that society is more free with that regulation, or less free?
The same logic applies here. The market is free when everyone can freely participate in it. Which means that we have to stop (regulate) those who want to prevent people from participating (i.e. monopolists).
Look man, good on you for understanding that "free markets", the fundamental ideology of capitalism, is antagonistic to people's liberty. Its just wild that you acknowledge that but then go on to insist we should keep doing free markets and capitalism.
Free markets and capitalism will always both ideologically and materially put people into power who disagree with you, people who want to deregulate the market and restrict people's freedom. In order to actually do what you want you must shut those people, the bourgeoisie, out of power. It doesnt matter if you do that through revolutionary violence like the communists or through peaceful democracy like so many Latin american nations. You will be met with violence from the bourgeoisie. Doesnt matter if all you want is an actually regulated free market.
Wrong already. The fundamental ideology of capitalism is that people with capital reap the profits (through control of means of production, but also means of living). You can shorten that to "rich get richer". But nothing related to markets.
In fact, there were several instances of capitalist economies without a free market. Nazi Germany comes to mind - the government bought weapons, supplies, and everything else, but they were contracted from private corporations controlled only by "desirable" individuals. Other wartime economies apply here too, to a lesser degree - with rationing but still private ownership.
And yes, capitalists are always afraid of a genuinely free market, because they don't want competition.
That's not an ideology. That's the actual material conditions of capitalism. An ideology exists in people's minds. Its the justification for those material conditions. The capitalist justification is "the freer the markets the freer the people". Sometimes people see through that bullshit and they adopt a new ideology, usually some variant of fascism.
The Nazi's and many fascists will cannibalize sectors of the market that dont get along with the new regime. This isn't a particularly novel observation.
Its like you understand that everything the capitalists told you is bullshit but you still want the fake goal they set up. So you kept the label of "free market" and slapped it on "well regulated market" and are pretending like you've done some clever judo. Everyone will call you a market socialist because that's what you want.
Yes.
And despite all your railing against anything resembling a free market, I still don't see any downsides of that.
My problem is you're calling a well regulated market a "free market" when thats universally accepted as the total opposite definiton of the phrase. I dont know why you insist on calling market socialism "free markets". You want market socialism for a free society.
Free markets are antithetical to a free society as you pointed out before.