I just got into an argument with a Zionist settler who claimed that in the years of austerity after the Entity was established, that it had state ownership of the means of production, ergo it was a socialist state - but that the state's mismanagement led the settlers to shift towards liberal capitalism. The settler interlocutor also stressed that there were ties between the USSR and the Zionist entity.
So basically, what's up with that, and how can I better argue against Zionism, bearing these facts in mind?
So basically, my interlocutor was BSing about state-owned means of production?
Why did the USSR support Israel to begin with?
They once had more state-owned companies than they do now, but they've always had a private sector where workers have no rights over the means of production
From wikipedia:
I don't blame Stalin for thinking european Jews would become the USSR's natural ally, but it seems like a silly lapse in ideology for realpolitik
It's worth pointing out that in Stalin's Marxism and the National Question, he acknowledged that zionism is reactionary. What a silly guy
Fascinating!
Wasn't the thinking at the time national liberation then class liberation? Did that come later?
Lenin's A Caricature of Marxism and Imperialist Economism was well from 1916 and that expressed that idea, didn't it?
Dunno. Haven't read it. Let me go look it up.
Like a lot of theory, my compehension of it is lacking, but I do remember that our boy did spend some time talking about Norway's independence from Sweden in it, which I found kind of surprising and neat.
Edit: apparently Lenin wrote something dunking on Rosa Lux over Norway, The Right of Nations to Self Determination. That was in 1914.
okay i had a post about this a long time ago but basically it was the politburo that overruled him on the thing and only gave tentative support to better relations with the west. They still held that the best defense against anti-semitism would be a dismantling of fascism in europe.
There was no 'support' as much as molotov ribbentrop was an alliance
2)to fuck over the brits and wrong ideas about what makes a nation i think
Very interesting.
Stalin supported Israel’s statehood for two reasons:
as a fuck-you to the British. we’re getting speculative here, but maybe a sufficiently pacified Palestine ends up like Gibraltar or Cyprus.
a hope that the communist Party (A joint Jewish-Arab party) that held about 12% of the Knesset in ‘48 could eventually make enough gains to keep Israel non-aligned. As an aside, In terms of world Powers, Israel was closer in terms of Geopolitical influence with France than the U.S. until ‘67.
another bit on that second point, france had the largest communist party in the west and there was some hopes that theyd take over the whole country. in 1945 they had the most votes of any party, and maintained this lead until late 50s. and before the nazi occupation, france was led by socialists (and pm leon blum was a jewish man put into a concentration camp, whose party allied with the communists), so this wasnt an unreasonable conclusion
Indeed. After the second world War, communists across the globe emerged from the conflict as the heroes that saved the free world. Communist parties all over the world gave their all in the fight against fascism and the people knew who fought for their freedom.
For a brief time we were yet again at the cusp of a world revolution, evermore closer to victory than we were with the October Revolution. Yet like the tide, the wave that swept so close flowed back once more in great reaction to our victory and pushed back hard.
Now we communists of the modern period wait for the next rising tide and hope it will be the final one.