I linked to this thread, only because it's what got me thinking about this topic again. Me and my SO talk about phones occasionally, regarding our kids. Neither of them are anywhere close to an age where they might have one. However, as time goes on, we find ourselves so repelled by the idea of the kids having a fully fledged smartphone.
Given the reality that all social media apps are effectively skinner boxes, training you to use them more, the idea of allowing kids on them feels like offering a 10-year-old a cigarette. I have to remind myself that the internet I grew up on is dead and gone. I may have been exposed to some weird ass shit in AOL chat rooms, but there wasn't any kind of algorithmic content feed keeping me itching and scratching.
So far, the only time the oldest uses an iPad is when they use mine, and the only apps they use are Procreate for drawing, and an app that helps kids learn to write letters and words. Watching TV is probably the worst thing we get into at home when it comes to just pure content consumption, but we keep the list of watchable stuff pretty small, and regularly axe shows we feel don't meet our standards when we venture off that list.
I guess this has evolved into a larger discussion about media consumption as I have typed this out, but at the end of the day, that's what's happening on these phones, right?
why don’t people just lean into it? I mean, heavily regulate/limit devices until they can really understand them (maybe 12-15 years old), and then start just teaching them full on about nerd shit. Turn them into Linux nerds, teach them about dystopian social media algorithms, get them hooked on nerd shit like compiling their own software and programming scripts for menial work. I can’t imagine a kid getting hooked on Cocomelon if you’ve managed to instill in them a reflexive disgust of the entire YouTube content farming industry
Start them out with a lan-only Linux install that’s properly set up to prevent them from using the internet, but has access to few pre-installed games and all the apps needed for development and tinkering
This. If you're old enough to pick up a weapon you're old enough to fight. There's no such thing as "too young" or "not ready". War has never spared the children. As soon as they can coordinate their eyes and their hands they're fighting a war for their own attention, dopamine regulation, self esteem, and social life.
God created Mint to train the faithful.
Certified Linux child soldiers moment
Something that's amazingly consistent about play behaviors in mammals; play teaches you to fight.
Goat kids rear and headbutt, cats pounce, wolves hound and nip and submit, monkeys chase each other up and down, human kids turn anything they can pick up in to a sword.
Play teaches many other things - social relationships, fairness, theory of mind, coordination, dance, joy. But it also teaches you how to fight, how to hunt, how to move quickly through unknown terrain, how to hide and deceive.
Progress is an illusion. We still live in a world of violence and hardship. Not everywhere, not for everyone, not all the time. But look at the former ussr. 35 years ago Russians and Ukrainians were comrades, friends, building communism together. Now after a generation of Nazi lies and NATO manipulations, capital theft and demographic collapse the two nations are locked in a brutal struggle that should have been unthinkable.
And there are many other, less dramatic cases. Kids will face bullying. Kids will need to lie convincly to teachers and bureaucrats and cops. Kids might need to steal shit. Kids might need to run real goddamn fast, even if it's just to catch the bus.
Every act of play can be preparation for hardship as well as joy. A tiktok dance might teach you to love life, but it's also teaching you to lead and follow, to have patience when other's can't keep up or with your own limits, to coordinate, to view the world as an interconnect network of people. And dancing is just swordsmanship without the blade. Footwork is the first step in learning to fight, before you learn to control your breath or throw a punch.
You can view these things holistically. Learning to fight gives you the power to avoid fighting. Learning the wield a sword teaches you to dance with someone you love. Learning to coordinate a dance routine teaches you to lead an army but also to plan a wedding feast.
I agree completely, it’s just funny and horrific from a zoomed out viewpoint
True dat. No one should have to deal with this bs, especially kids.
Our cause is just. The enemy shall be defeated. Victory shall be ours. Long live Linux.
Yeah, I mean, to be fair, this will probably be us as well. It's a duality my SO and I live in. Because on one hand, we'd rather they never have to touch social media, but on the other hand, we want a sick gaming and tinkering room where we can all hang and play games. So the former is pretty idealist, and I accept is unrealistic, considering I know the latter is inevitable. Besides, I already have a rolling server rack with some gear in it, and by the time they're old enough for Minecraft, that rack will be loaded with servers that I'll happily let them tinker with.