Ukraine will be able to use Danish and Dutch F-16s to strike into Russia, while Belgium is saying only for use in 1991-border Ukraine.

Archived version: https://archive.ph/Iv4Fu

  • Tankiedesantski [he/him]
    ·
    7 months ago

    Ukraine: "I consent."

    Denmark: "I consent."

    Russia: "Was there somebody you forgot to ask?"

    The myth of consentual flights of F-16s into Russian territory.

    • BrikoX@lemmy.zip
      hexagon
      M
      ·
      7 months ago

      Same way Russia forgot to ask Ukraine, Ukraine forgot to ask Russia. Seems fair.

      • Tankiedesantski [he/him]
        ·
        7 months ago

        forgot to ask Ukraine

        After how many Minsk Agreements mediated by the OSCE would you consider Ukraine properly "asked"?

        • BrikoX@lemmy.zip
          hexagon
          M
          ·
          7 months ago

          The same ones that Russia and Ukraine hates? They can't even agree on the meaning of them, since they are such an ambiguous mess that doesn't specify anything.

          • Tankiedesantski [he/him]
            ·
            7 months ago

            Skill issue. Were I the Ukrainians I simply would have negotiated a better treaty.

              • Tankiedesantski [he/him]
                ·
                7 months ago

                No doubt. Russia placed too much faith in the OSCE and France and Germany approaching the process in good faith. Merkel later came out and said that the Minsk process was just a time-buying exercise so that NATO could arm Ukraine as a proxy against Russia.

                Ukraine, of course, knew that it was being armed and trained and had the carrot of NATO and EU membership dangled before it. Circling back to the original point, the fact that Ukraine was being armed and trained at such a rate is good evidence that Ukraine absolutely knew what was about to happen.

                • BrikoX@lemmy.zip
                  hexagon
                  M
                  ·
                  7 months ago

                  Russia placed too much faith in the OSCE and France and Germany approaching the process in good faith.

                  I'm not sure if you're calling Putin a stupid man that is easily manipulated or incompetent. No politician ever in their lives did anything in good faith, Putin included. You must be very naive to think that.

                  <...> good evidence that Ukraine absolutely knew what was about to happen.

                  That's an empty speculation. Knowing and preparing for a possibly are completely different things. Also, if you note the timing on the war, it stared a month before a US company was about to start extracting oil and gas from the Ukraine territory and cut off Russia from Europe as supplier. The reason for the invasion was pure greed and not some stupid notions of NATO expansion or cries for help from Russian separatist groups.

                  • Tankiedesantski [he/him]
                    ·
                    7 months ago

                    I'm not sure if you're calling Putin a stupid man that is easily manipulated or incompetent. No politician ever in their lives did anything in good faith, Putin included. You must be very naive to think that.

                    Very cool that the argument boils down to "of course we were going to trick you, you are stupid for being tricked." I guess the lesson the world should learn is to never trust a Euroid and to respond to European peace overtures with uncompromising force.

                  • CascadeOfLight [he/him]
                    ·
                    7 months ago

                    Would you say Ukraine was "preparing for a possibly (sic)" when its Nazi special forces were creating Hitlerjugend-style child soldier training camps?

                    Show

                  • 420blazeit69 [he/him]
                    ·
                    7 months ago

                    No politician ever in their lives did anything in good faith

                    "My country has broken hundreds of treaties and wipes its ass with international law, but it's actually OK because it's impossible for anyone to operate differently"

                  • Slotos@feddit.nl
                    ·
                    7 months ago

                    I'm not sure if you're calling Putin a stupid man that is easily manipulated or incompetent.

                    They are parroting Russian propaganda. The one where “the west” is stipid, cunning, strong, and rotting all at the same time.

          • 420blazeit69 [he/him]
            ·
            7 months ago

            Lmao what a cop out. At bare minimum Ukraine should have stopped allowing fascist paramilitary groups to shell civilians in the east, an act that was illegal a half a dozen other ways, too. And Angela Merkel admitted the agreements were not an attempt to actually resolve that issue or the issue of the west installing a hostile foreign government via coup, but to give Ukraine time to arm up to fight Russia:

            In an interview published in Germany's Zeit magazine on Wednesday, former German chancellor Angela Merkel said that the Minsk agreements had been an attempt to "give Ukraine time" to build up its defences.

            https://www.reuters.com/world/putin-russia-may-have-make-ukraine-deal-one-day-partners-cheated-past-2022-12-09/

      • robinnn
        ·
        7 months ago

        The same way Ukraine forgot to ask the families of Jewish people killed in the Holocaust if they could put up statues and monuments commemorating Nazi collaborators including OUN members who participated in carrying out the Holocaust?