I swear i see this behavior that's supposedly an early childhood behavior in children 2-5 all the time online. People in team games who seem unable, incapable, not just of cooperating as a team but als unable to recognize cooperation as helpful or desirable.

Currently it's my going theory as to why some people breeze through helldivers while others suffer great frustration with the game; team players with mediocre skills and basic game knowledge will succeed, while a group of four individuals who do not cooperate, even if each of htem has better shooting skills, movement, or response times, will fail.

And what's fascinating is the people who seem unable to see and understand that. I've played large scale multiplayer games where the devs radically changed the core game experience because a player faction that leveraged team play and cooperation completely dominated other factions despite having, on average, less skilled players. Teamwork and communication were overwhelming force multipliers that the other factions could not overcome to degree that it was driving players away from the game.

My current jones is figuring out what drives a small but extremely vicious group of angry players in helldivers 2 and i think that ultimately, when analyzed from sufficient difference, the problem is a sub-set of players who cannot play cooperatively, do not realize they cannot play cooperatively, and so they feel bullied and persecuted when they fail in a game that requires teamwork and cooperation. For these players, unaware of their inability to cooperate, these failures can only be explained by malicious design choices by the devs. Since they do not or cannot understand that the game requires them to work with others to succeed the only explanation they can come up with is that the devs are attacking them. When a weapon is bugged in a way that allows an individual to bulldoze the game alone this group flocks to it and believes that they must use the weapon bc, from their perspective, that broken weapon is the only possible way to succeed.

They simply do not, maybe can not, understand that other players can and do succeed. They do not seem to see teamwork and do not understand on a conceptual level what teamwork is or what it accomplishes. They can only view the game from the perspective of themselves as an isolated individual.

And, so, when the devs fix a bug in a weapon that caused it to wildly overperform, these players believe they have been attacked for no reason. They were enjoying the game, then the devs maliciously broke their toy, now they cannot enjoy the devs. The only explanation they can conjure is that the devs are persecuting them out of malice.

For months I've been completely fascinated by the disparity by what players in online forums say about the game and what i understand about the game's mechanics and what I observe in the game. Online people will say, with rigid and inflexible certainty, that it is impossible to complete the game without a specific "meta" loadout. They seem completely convinced of this. And the plain fact is that many players are able to breeze through the most challenging content with little difficulty. And the gap seems unbridgable. No amount of evidence will shift some people. Many of them very vocally reject any attempt at education.

It's a personal concern to me because I do quite well at the game and play at the highest difficulty. Seeing a vocal minority of players demand that the game be made dramatically less complex and less challenging concerns me because if such changes are made I will not be able to enjoy the game. And the devs seem to be taking this minority very seriously and are describing changes they want to make to the game that will fundamentally change it.

And it won't work. It's a contradiction. It's a four player, team oriented game. If it's simplified to the point where individuals can succeed alone it will not be satisfying to team players. If it's made to satisfy team players it will not be suitable for loners. The small dev team cannot bridge this gap by creating essentially two separate games to appease each group. And it seems like they're going to try.

It's very unfortunate. Part of how i figured this out was a long, somewhat heated discussion with a pair of software engineers about why some people had so much trouble with the game. They put forth various changes to the mechanics of the game, none of which seemed to me to be relevant or to address the problem. They, in turn, were short with me and began speaking like i was a child who couldn't understanf simple concepts. And eventually a third party pointed out why we couldn't agree.

They're software engineers. To them the problem must lie in the software and the solution is to fiddle with it. I'm an anthropologist. I identified the problem as lying in the cultural beliefs and expectations of some players. The changes they were positing would all fail, not because of anything to do with their solutions, but becuase *the player population would never engage with the solutions". That was the gap. They didn't understand that no matter how they fiddled with things, they were trying to appease a group of people who are completely disinterested in learning or change, and who will not deviate from their behavior the engage with changes in game systems, in-game attempts at education, or tweaks to the parameters of weapons and enemies. They thought i was an idiot who rejected all their proposals because i couldn't understand the basics of games design, where I identified the problem as lying not within the game but within a subsection of the culture playing the game.

If that conversation sounds extremely frustrating; that's what being an anthropologist is like all the time. We study culture, and for most people culture is just as invisible and inexplicable as quantum mechanics. It just doesn't exist for most people and as such it's excruciating trying to communicate about culture. Stem people especially believe that they're rational individuals who exist completely by themselves and are quite hard to reach. Culture is soft and squishy, so it must not be real or important. Telling them that this is a cultural belief they hold does nothing to help the matter.

  • AernaLingus [any]
    ·
    3 个月前

    If you haven't seen it already, I think you'd find Why it's Rude to Suck at Warcraft an interesting watch, although it's about the opposite problem (a small group of hardcore players pushing for changes that make the game less enjoyable and more toxic). As a former WoW player who quit largely due to how awful people could be in raids it shed a lot of light on how things got so bad.

    I no longer play co-op games with PUGs (or much co-op at all tbh), but that sounds super frustrating. I studied CS, but I also studied a lot in the social sciences and was so disheartened by how completely incurious most of my CS peers were about anything outside of STEM. It's bonkers to me that we weren't required to take so much as an ethics course considering how much of our world is shaped by code. Not that it'd be a panacea, but judging by their unalloyed excitement at the prospect of working for big tech, finance, arms manufacturers, and three-letter agencies, I genuinely don't think most of them saw programming as anything other than a tool to solve interesting problems--nevermind whether those "problems" are actually problems and what the knock-on effects of "solving" them might be. Maybe forcing them to consider the consequences of their actions might at least give them pause before they help implement a machine learning algorithm for denying people home loans or whatever.

    • Amerikan Pharaoh@lemmygrad.ml
      ·
      3 个月前

      I studied CS, but I also studied a lot in the social sciences and was so disheartened by how completely incurious most of my CS peers were about anything outside of STEM. It’s bonkers to me that we weren’t required to take so much as an ethics course considering how much of our world is shaped by code.

      I feel like I just had this conversation with one of the few homies I have who unvarnished knows my politics and knows how much I outright despise what I call 'techbros' despite swimming in the same professional pools as them; like-- my reason for it is and always has been to go into games. I know finance, weapons, and surveillance would all pay hand over fist more; but for me, my principles and the intersections of my identity mean more to me than easily-spent, easily-devalued blood money.

      And that's why I can't stand techbros. Because they don't even seem to consider the ethics of whose orders they're carrying out; and as a result, I have no faith in what fruit their works will bear.

    • Frank [he/him, he/him]
      hexagon
      ·
      3 个月前

      I have consistently good experience with pugs/pubbies and i sincerely wonder if it isn't because i have a deep man voice that is culturally associated with competence and authority regardless of how full of shit i am at any moment.

      I think there's a long standing trend of the hard sciences dismissing the soft sciences out of hand because we can't stick all of humanity in a petri dish in order to perform experiments according to the scientific method and arrive at rigorous results. The hard sciences often dismiss us because our tools are limited in what kind of knowledge we can produce. But it seems they often dismiss the entire notion of social sciences and express that if the problem is too complex to apply the scientific method then it shouldn't be investigated at all, even going so far as to assert that the squishy stuff isn't real. It's unfortunate. I perceive stem as being somewhere between severely limited and totally helpless as a result of their rejection of the social sciences and liberal arts. I sometimes express it by saying stem knows how to do things but they don't know why to do things and they scoff at all the forms of knowledge that could tell them why to do things. I've observed that many engineers who care about the whys, about the human cost, struggle with the industry because so much of tech these days is espionage, manipulation, or just outright building guns.

      • robot_dog_with_gun [they/them]
        ·
        3 个月前

        highschool explanations of "soft" science methodologies are pretty abysmal. they should spend more time on how we know what we know about these things and how you have rigor without sterile repeatability, but then you couldn't teach economics or psychology at that level at all.