• Nakoichi [they/them]
    ·
    2 months ago

    Except when you peddle antisemitic tropes about the US government being controlled by Israel when the OPPOSITE is true. Fuck you dude. You are a danger to the movements you purportedly support.

    • orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts
      ·
      2 months ago

      The US created Israel and now we fund them and their genocide endlessly, but AIPAC money also permeates US politics. It’s a wild web of bullshit. Idk how any of that is antisemitic though. The only part I see as antisemitic was when the US and Britain didn’t want to take the Jewish diaspora themselves.

      • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]
        ·
        2 months ago

        Idk how any of that is antisemitic though

        Saying that the US - the global imperialist hegemon - is controlled by Isreal, on top of being ridiculous, is deeply antisemitic.

        It plays into the trope of Jews control everything. It handwaves every blatantly obvious reality about the relationship between the US and Isreal and says "Yup that colonial apendage is the real master of the US, because Jews."

        • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
          ·
          2 months ago

          Saying that the US - the global imperialist hegemon - is controlled by Isreal, on top of being ridiculous, is deeply antisemitic.

          Isn't that an Israeli talking point tho, that any criticism of them is anti-semitic, equating any criticism of the zionist project as anti-semitic? Seems like both white-supremacists (who want to see an evil jewish cabal controlling everything), and Israel (who want their state to be equated with judaism), agree on that equation, even though they're on opposite sides.

          • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]
            ·
            edit-2
            2 months ago

            Isreal hides behind all of semitism as a human shield, so it makes sense that of the criticisms they label antisemitic (all of them) that some of them actually would be. It's understandable (not good or tolerable but also not an anomaly) that given the hideously complicated level of intertwining machinery between our two occupation governments, someone without a materialist grounding in the subject could come to confuse who controls who, especially someone who's grown up marinating in casually fascist explanations for the state of the world like most of us did

            I just realized that it kind of sounds like I was implying you don't know materialism so I wanna clarify that I'm talking about a hypothetical rando, I know you're Dessalines lmao

            • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]
              ·
              2 months ago

              Exactly. Im a stickler on this point because I've had to go through conversations with left leaning jewish friends who still have some lingering brainworms. It matters to understand what is actual antisemitism. The zionist will not act in good faith - so it's even more important for us to understand the difference

          • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]
            ·
            2 months ago

            Isn't that an Israeli talking point tho, that any criticism of them is anti-semitic, equating any criticism of the zionist project as anti-semitic?

            No. What I'm saying is that specifically believing the US is controlled by Isreal - that the US is subordinate to Isreal - that is an antisemitic belief (on top of being ridiculous). That's not an isreali talking point. Believing that is not helping combat zionism - it helps it.

            I'm anti-zionist. That's why its very important to me to point out this antisemitic belief because its detrimental to the cause of anti-zionism.

            • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
              ·
              2 months ago

              That makes sense. Its a very weird thing to think anyway, that the most powerful country in history is somehow controlled by a vassal state they helped create, and who's only able to continue existing due to US support.

              • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
                ·
                2 months ago

                Yep, it's a hand-washing of the US's role in Zionism. The consequence of this line of thinking is that the US is merely being used, it sides with the Imperialist Hegemon against its vassal, excusing Imperalism.

                It's the anti-Zionist Liberal interpretation, excusing the Empire for the deeds its Vassal commits.

                • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  2 months ago

                  It's the anti-Zionist Liberal interpretation, excusing the Empire for the deeds its Vassal commits.

                  Nailed it. They need to excuse the US and they get to do it in a racist way. Liberal win-win

    • heggs_bayer
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      I'm out of the loop. Did OP pull that shit in a post or comment somewhere? Nvm, I just looked through their post history and they're big on the ZOG shit.

      • Nakoichi [they/them]
        ·
        2 months ago

        See the comment right below where another dipshit is claiming the US gov is controlled by Israel and AIPAC.

          • Nakoichi [they/them]
            ·
            2 months ago

            What they were? Not surprised really since the mods asside from Dessalines here are pretty shit.

            • sub_ubi@lemmy.ml
              ·
              2 months ago

              in this thread,

              https://lemmy.ml/post/20530766

              all but one of your posts has been moderated. No issues with the ZOG conspiracy of course.

      • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]
        ·
        2 months ago

        Are you denying the existence of AIPAC?

        The US government is controlled by Israel,

        Yes that is antisemitic nonsense, but it also doesn't make any sense leaving that aside. You're saying the global imperialist hegemon is controlled by an appendage of its own policy. You're giving a pass to the US for it's policy and part in genocide by saying its "controled" by Isreal.

        It is of course the other way around. Isreal destabilizes the Middle East toward the equilibrium the US favors. The US uses Isreal, its not controled by it

            • antmzo220@lemmy.ml
              ·
              2 months ago

              Apologies, you are right actually.

              Israel doesn't control the US.

              BOTH are controlled by the will of the bourgeois and this is as far as any analysis is allowed to go, doing any further analysis would be nonsense.

          • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]
            ·
            edit-2
            2 months ago

            That's a lot of words to double down on an antisemitic trope

            The US could theoretically not allow themselves to be controlled. But that's not the reality.

            pit

            • antmzo220@lemmy.ml
              ·
              2 months ago

              the rest of what Israel brings is too valuable to the US global goals, so it goes along with Israel to preserve that and is therefore controlled on issues that Israel chooses to exert control over.

              • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]
                ·
                2 months ago

                Smol bean US being controlled by their own vassal that couldn't exist without their support. This is really deep analysis. You are a very deep thinker. jagoff

                  • Nakoichi [they/them]
                    ·
                    2 months ago

                    It is not a strawman you are literally doubling and tripling down on an antisemitic trope known as ZOG. It is an unambiguously neo-Nazi talking point self crit my dude.

                    • antmzo220@lemmy.ml
                      ·
                      edit-2
                      2 months ago

                      Is it anti-semitic "Zog" narrative to say that Israel bought, and therefore control the outcomes in, Missouri District ? (Cori Bush lost to a pro-israel candidate which attained historical funding from AIPAC)

                      • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]
                        ·
                        2 months ago

                        Everyone arguing with you is anti-zionist. We want Isreal as it exists to end. If you care about the injustice and genocide of that fascist settler-colonial state, then I don't get why you want to die on the hill of an antisemitic position