I mean, "Nature" is a dialectic all in itself. It is at once both the ultimate origin of the human species, and everything with which we sustain & furnish ourselves; and at the same time it is the origin of every disease that would harm us, and of every condition & necessity that allows for one person to hold dominion over & abuse another. For that reason, it would be unwise not to attempt to make ourselves the masters of it.
But I would disagree that there is a "dialectic" between the "natural", and the "unnatural". That's a position born either out of theology, or of pastoral romanticism. Instead one might say that there is a dialectic between those things which are the product of human society distinctly, and those things which are not, but both are in fact contained within the broader scope of the Natural.
Good points all around. I will say that I wasn't using artificial to mean unnatural, merely to assert the dialectic you point out between human creation and nonhuman creation.
Otherwise we'd have to place bird nests and beaver dams into the category of artifice, and then things just get silly.
When there is a viable artificial alternative, in this case space habitats, I think terraforming is inexcusable.
Okay, but why? Particularly in the case of Mars, which doesn't presently have an extant ecosystem.
Why increase the productive capacity of Mars if there is literally no reason to?
I mean people usually do not engage in extremely expensive infrastructure projects for the meme of it. That's precisely why NASA said that we can't do it, and should bother. The question is why you have a moral, rather than simply practical objection to this?
We do not increas the productive capacity of a given piece of land - we only go through successive decreases in productivity that we attempt to mitigate through new technological methods. With another planet, you're starting from 0 productivity, and the prospect of increasing it is so outrageously expensive that it's invalidated before it even begins.
We do not increas the productive capacity of a given piece of land - we only go through successive decreases in productivity that we attempt to mitigate through new technological methods.
That's patently not true. If it were, then the general population of human beings on Earth would've remained steady since the dawn of agriculture, which even before the "industrial revolution" proper it hadn't.
Your second point about terraforming a dead planet being more expensive than it's worth, and being more-or-less impossible under current conditions (the whole point of the article in OP) I would tend to agree with though.
That's patently not true. If it were, then the general population of human beings on Earth would've remained steady since the dawn of agriculture, which even before the "industrial revolution" proper it hadn't.
That's because we have continually been bringing new land and resources into production. If you're a theory reader, Jason Moore's Capitalism and the Web of Life is all about this idea and the dialectics of appropriation and exploitation that drive social change. It's a really really good read.
That can be said about literally any endeavor to increase the productive capacity of a given piece of land though...
This isn't a Marxist/Materialist position, is what I'm getting at.
There is still a dialectic between the artificial world and the natural world. Valuing nature is a dialectical position.
Based and correct honestly
I mean, "Nature" is a dialectic all in itself. It is at once both the ultimate origin of the human species, and everything with which we sustain & furnish ourselves; and at the same time it is the origin of every disease that would harm us, and of every condition & necessity that allows for one person to hold dominion over & abuse another. For that reason, it would be unwise not to attempt to make ourselves the masters of it.
But I would disagree that there is a "dialectic" between the "natural", and the "unnatural". That's a position born either out of theology, or of pastoral romanticism. Instead one might say that there is a dialectic between those things which are the product of human society distinctly, and those things which are not, but both are in fact contained within the broader scope of the Natural.
Good points all around. I will say that I wasn't using artificial to mean unnatural, merely to assert the dialectic you point out between human creation and nonhuman creation.
Otherwise we'd have to place bird nests and beaver dams into the category of artifice, and then things just get silly.
When there is a viable artificial alternative, in this case space habitats, I think terraforming is inexcusable.
Why increase the productive capacity of Mars if there is literally no reason to?
Okay, but why? Particularly in the case of Mars, which doesn't presently have an extant ecosystem.
I mean people usually do not engage in extremely expensive infrastructure projects for the meme of it. That's precisely why NASA said that we can't do it, and should bother. The question is why you have a moral, rather than simply practical objection to this?
We do not increas the productive capacity of a given piece of land - we only go through successive decreases in productivity that we attempt to mitigate through new technological methods. With another planet, you're starting from 0 productivity, and the prospect of increasing it is so outrageously expensive that it's invalidated before it even begins.
That's patently not true. If it were, then the general population of human beings on Earth would've remained steady since the dawn of agriculture, which even before the "industrial revolution" proper it hadn't.
Your second point about terraforming a dead planet being more expensive than it's worth, and being more-or-less impossible under current conditions (the whole point of the article in OP) I would tend to agree with though.
That's because we have continually been bringing new land and resources into production. If you're a theory reader, Jason Moore's Capitalism and the Web of Life is all about this idea and the dialectics of appropriation and exploitation that drive social change. It's a really really good read.