ITT: People becoming the very same pocket shirt, horseshoe-pattern baldness Cold War boomers screaming red-faced about Russia that their parents and grandparents were. Sad!
One of these is the enemy of you nation that you've been taught your whole life to warmonger against.
The other is your ally that your taxes pay for, and you supply the weapons for to commit genocide.
You have more of a responsibility to confront one than the other. Do you not understand this, or do you just like playing dumb to both sides everything and wash away your own guilt? You realize playing into your nations' imperialist warmongering narratives AND defending Israeli genocide with "both sides" crap doubles your sins, it doesn't cancel them out.
I'm not from us. My government does not contribute to Isreal at all. We hoever contribute as much aid to Palestine and Ukraine as we can. I'm not from a rich country, so it's a drop in a bucket..
if you think these are anywhere on the same scale or barbarity then you're extremely misinformed about the world. Israel killed more civilians in a month then Russia did in 3 years.
War crimes are war crimes. It's not a contest who collects more or collects less. You make one that should be enough to get your economy crippled by others. Sadly, one is not punished enough, another not at all.
ok everyone in all wars ever are equally guilty of war crimes. Nazis? Exactly the same as Native Americans defending their homeland. It's all the same. War crimes are war crimes.
This is the brainrot of the liberal mind. The mechanism of "punishment" is more war, from the warmonger imperialists. You cannot 'punish' russia without cheering on western imperialist war. It's zero sum.
What are you talking about? The mechanism of punishment is sanctions. Isolation. Crippling economy. Not war. War is the choice of Russia. It can stop whenever it wants. Nobody is preventing it.
Sanctions are an instrument of war, they kill millions. They are one of the primary tools of western imperialists. If you support western imperialist sanctions, you support their warmongering machine.
Isolation
How's that going for you lmao? West has only isolated themselves by revealing to the world their nazi loving, ISIS funding genocidal freakish natures. Applauding Nazis in their parliaments, cheering on Al Qaeda taking over Syria with Ukrainian support. You are just letting it all out and the world is seeing it.
Crippling economy
This is just another part of sanctions, see paragraph 1.
All of this is war or lead up and escalation to war. You want to "de-escalate by escalating" to "punish" the "bad countries" because you have a paternalistic, imperialistic mindset where you believe western nations hold the right to punish others.
It's hilarious how everyone of you NATOID leftists pretend to be above it all and "both sides are bad" but when we press you enough, you spout Kissinger-esque neocon dogma like you've been trained.
No, form an ex Soviet satellite state. Been Ukraine a dozen times - typical eastern European shithole, worse off than my place tho. Been two or three times to Russia and that's a whole different story... Had a gun held to my head by FSB (while they were stealing our camera), was offered to be shot on the internal border by the soldiers another time. Stayed at Vladikavkaz and Moscow and do appreciate the warm cyberpunk-postapocalyptic vibe. Meet the most broken and ethically corrupt people Ive seen in quite a few years of travels (and I've been living for most of the last 15 years with Bealarusians and Russians who escaped that). Altogether a lovely place, but would prefer it doesn't visit my country again, its shit enough as it is.
And you? Been there, or do you only gaggle RT and believe what the TV told you?
Mate, I got a pretty big bookshelf full of Russian authors and could name more Russian bands that I listen to regularly then you heard of most likely. Miss me with the russiophobia bullshit. You even know any actual Russians? Ever asked them about their country?
Oh, ok, then clearly, I'm hiding my deep hatred for the other group of Slavs then the one I belong to, but not just the eastern ones, as I do seem to be living with Belorussians, and working with Ukrainians, it's only the ones supporting this one particular imperialist state. Just a simple racist, and I only let it slip by asking you people to prove anything of the bullshit you're spilling here like the mad fucked up sect you and your mates here are clearly. You got me.
then stop funding nazis and giving them weaponry, and oppose your government joining in on the western fascists' war against Russia. Do everything you can to push for peace and stopping weapon shipments.
The more entangled your nation gets in Ukraine, the more likely war will spread to you - and you will have nobody to blame but yourselves for allying with nazis and American imperialists.
Just after Kremlin stops funding nazis in my country, and most of Europe. Russia can stop the war anytime, it just needs to go back to it's borders, how hard can that be? Cuz if it's meant to stop a possible war with NATO that's clearly not going according to plan and at they are still mostly fighting NATO tech from the 80's operated by silly Ukrainians who had a few months of NATO training?
The more entangled your nation gets in Ukraine, the more likely war will spread to you
See, this type of russian propaganda fear-mongering doesent work on Polish people, because one - we have lived under Russian occupation or threat of invasion for the last 200 years, and two - we know that unless it stops in Ukraine the war will come to us soon after. Oh and three; dying heroically is the basis of national ethos here, if you took a few minutes to skim the history of the region about every generation Poles would have a suicidal uprising against the occupiers, well knowing it will fail.
Also in about a year Poland itself, without the rest of NATO, will have more main battle tanks and rocket artillery than Russia. There was a time when we were afraid as a society, but Ukraine clearly showed we can challenge Russian imperialism and increasingly likely - win.
Funny thing I'm literally chilling after running trainings for trade unions for the last few days. I work for trade unions full time, while (separately) being a member of the most radical one in the country. You at least have a union card, or you only commie on the net?
Trade unionists who support Nationalism and Imperialism are class traitors. Thanks for further cementing what you are. Banderites are anti-communists who burned trade unionist halls down and slaughtered the trade unionists. You side with your enemies because, as I said, you are a traitor and deeply confused or reactionary.
Trade unionists who support Nationalism and Imperialism are class traitors
Yeah, I'd agree with that, absolutely. See, that's the fun part here; you're mostly arguing with a straw-man in your head, and not with someone who committed his life to class struggle but holds slightly different beliefs/optics than you do.
But also - so yeah, you're not even in a union, miserable keyboard warrior :D
when those different beliefs are "we should give weaponry to banderites to ethnically cleanse russians" then you've gone off the deep end and are fully a fascist. There's no coming back from it.
And where did I state that? Or going deeper into your delusions; if I'm a Polish nationalist, why would I want to arm banderites, of all people? They brutally butchered 50-120k Polish people; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia And how would one go ethnically cleansing 140 million Russians, especially using a comparably tiny, half-failed state of Ukraine, which for the most part is only operating inside of it's own borders? Do you really make any sens to yourself?
You did notice it is a critique of it at the same time? Simply trying to explain that it's hard to scare with war citizens of a country which public education teaches it's kids songs glorifying child soldiers. We even got some monuments if that was not clear enough for the youngsters...
That's a whole lot of words to say "capitalist Russia sucks in the same ways as every other place we've destabilized, and I have done no inquiry into the causality behind why because it confirms my priors to simply believe that "Russians" (which russians?) are just ontologically bad somehow"
Granting your nazi ass a seriousness it doesn't deserve for a second to talk to the other libs, this is where nationalism brain fails as a way of viewing the world. All you can talk about is Russia this and Ukraine that, as if we're talking about hive minds. All liberals do this, implying a unity that doesn't exist to paper over the reality of class warfare that actually drives these wars. As long as your analysis is built on assumptions of countries as single unified beings (a fairy tale for children) you will always fail to grasp the real causes of state actions.
Nah, I'm just pointing out it's a deeply corrupt, deeply violent authoritarian state. Been to China, been to some "3rd world" countries, and my own was a bloody neo-lib laboratory on the verge of collapse for most of my youth years and it's still all very different from Russia. Ukraine is very much an effect of destabilization efforts, that I could easily agree. But Russia? It had a system that it's leaders run to the ground themselves, a system that starved the "breadbasket" of Europe, and that went bankrupt despite having every possible resource earth could give. In the process it also destroyed the humanity of it's loyal subjects and corrupted the rest of forced them to run. Maybe it's just me, but it would seem to be the theme of any Russian counter-culture text and song over the lat 40 years as well, have a song, or another one. And now it has a government that reignites old nationalist and threatens to either invade or nuclear annihilate my country about every month (in voices of state figures, not some randos).
Fan fact in calling me a nazi in defense of Russia (apart from the fact I'm a well known antifa organiser); a family member was in the military intelligence (of the underground "Home Army") over WW2. He took part in some wild missions, like obtaining V2 rocket and delivering it to allies (as the Soviets were still cooperating with Nazis, would have be closer...). The guy went through Warsaw Uprising, the biggest antifascist uprising of WW2 (and arguably the most mindless suicide attack on nazis at a country level scale). But he survived both that and the concentration camp afterwards. And than he barely survived half a year of torture in soviet run prison. He did so only, as they never figured out his rank, he'd be shot as all other officers were. Never recovered from what they did to him tho. Wasn't the gestapo, wasn't plain fighting in a guerilla warfare against the nazis for over 5 years, it was the commissars that got him. Impressively that's the type of "anti-nazism" you favor, still.
If only there was a term for believing everyone that doesn't share your exact vision of the world is an enemy to be dehumanized and destroyed...
So anyway - fuck you, and enjoy the rest of the evening in your own shit. I'm off for a walk in a lovely snow covered hills.
Here, have some context. You guys cant stand the fact, that someone might be anti-imperialist; anti-US but also anti-Russian imperialism? Is it that hard to comprehend?
It's cold and dark outside, it's not like I would spend the rest of the night out mate... Was going to stop, but you'r sect keeps on coming and it's funny in a way - see you people deeply unable to prove any of your beliefs and hitting with the most tried and miss-target arguments you can pull.
But also, pleas do provide your definition of imperialism!
ITT: People becoming the very same pocket shirt, horseshoe-pattern baldness Cold War boomers screaming red-faced about Russia that their parents and grandparents were. Sad!
"I would have survived Generalplan Ost through demonstrating my superior hatred of the Russians!
"
That reminded me of a Polish poem, though i forgot who wrote it, it goes something like that:
"Dziś nas straszycie komunistami, tak jak przed laty
Straszono naszych ojców nazwiskiem demokraty"
"You scare us with communists, like in the old time
our fathers were scared with the democrat name"
The fact the Israel does war crimes does not excuse Russia doing war crimes. Both should be punished.
One of these is the enemy of you nation that you've been taught your whole life to warmonger against.
The other is your ally that your taxes pay for, and you supply the weapons for to commit genocide.
You have more of a responsibility to confront one than the other. Do you not understand this, or do you just like playing dumb to both sides everything and wash away your own guilt? You realize playing into your nations' imperialist warmongering narratives AND defending Israeli genocide with "both sides" crap doubles your sins, it doesn't cancel them out.
I'm not from us. My government does not contribute to Isreal at all. We hoever contribute as much aid to Palestine and Ukraine as we can. I'm not from a rich country, so it's a drop in a bucket..
if you are from part of the imperialist bloc of the west, yes you to contribute directly and indirectly to the western project of colonization.
If not, it's sad to see you've let western imperialist narratives colonize your mind
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What the fuck is wrong with you
scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds, i'm very good at identifying and scratching them lol
Homophobia is your only response because you know i'm right and you've failed your revolutionary duty.
if you think these are anywhere on the same scale or barbarity then you're extremely misinformed about the world. Israel killed more civilians in a month then Russia did in 3 years.
War crimes are war crimes. It's not a contest who collects more or collects less. You make one that should be enough to get your economy crippled by others. Sadly, one is not punished enough, another not at all.
ok everyone in all wars ever are equally guilty of war crimes. Nazis? Exactly the same as Native Americans defending their homeland. It's all the same. War crimes are war crimes.
This is the brainrot of the liberal mind. The mechanism of "punishment" is more war, from the warmonger imperialists. You cannot 'punish' russia without cheering on western imperialist war. It's zero sum.
What are you talking about? The mechanism of punishment is sanctions. Isolation. Crippling economy. Not war. War is the choice of Russia. It can stop whenever it wants. Nobody is preventing it.
Sanctions are an instrument of war, they kill millions. They are one of the primary tools of western imperialists. If you support western imperialist sanctions, you support their warmongering machine.
How's that going for you lmao? West has only isolated themselves by revealing to the world their nazi loving, ISIS funding genocidal freakish natures. Applauding Nazis in their parliaments, cheering on Al Qaeda taking over Syria with Ukrainian support. You are just letting it all out and the world is seeing it.
This is just another part of sanctions, see paragraph 1.
All of this is war or lead up and escalation to war. You want to "de-escalate by escalating" to "punish" the "bad countries" because you have a paternalistic, imperialistic mindset where you believe western nations hold the right to punish others.
It's hilarious how everyone of you NATOID leftists pretend to be above it all and "both sides are bad" but when we press you enough, you spout Kissinger-esque neocon dogma like you've been trained.
Nah, some of us just simply were to Russia, or come from communities that have dealt with their imperialism since a century or two...
eat shit
Nah, you can finish yours.
Do you come from russia?
No, form an ex Soviet satellite state. Been Ukraine a dozen times - typical eastern European shithole, worse off than my place tho. Been two or three times to Russia and that's a whole different story... Had a gun held to my head by FSB (while they were stealing our camera), was offered to be shot on the internal border by the soldiers another time. Stayed at Vladikavkaz and Moscow and do appreciate the warm cyberpunk-postapocalyptic vibe. Meet the most broken and ethically corrupt people Ive seen in quite a few years of travels (and I've been living for most of the last 15 years with Bealarusians and Russians who escaped that). Altogether a lovely place, but would prefer it doesn't visit my country again, its shit enough as it is.
And you? Been there, or do you only gaggle RT and believe what the TV told you?
edit: had to correct mobile-typed gibberish.
oh look a russophobic reactionary pole
Mate, I got a pretty big bookshelf full of Russian authors and could name more Russian bands that I listen to regularly then you heard of most likely. Miss me with the russiophobia bullshit. You even know any actual Russians? Ever asked them about their country?
Come to America, you will meet so many racist white guys who love rap
Oh, ok, then clearly, I'm hiding my deep hatred for the other group of Slavs then the one I belong to, but not just the eastern ones, as I do seem to be living with Belorussians, and working with Ukrainians, it's only the ones supporting this one particular imperialist state. Just a simple racist, and I only let it slip by asking you people to prove anything of the bullshit you're spilling here like the mad fucked up sect you and your mates here are clearly. You got me.
look i appreciate ruzzian culture, i just want those orcs exterminated and put into their place
Nah, I'd prefer that Russia doesn't invade my region again. ~150 years of occupation was enough for us. Same goes for our neighboring countries.
then stop funding nazis and giving them weaponry, and oppose your government joining in on the western fascists' war against Russia. Do everything you can to push for peace and stopping weapon shipments.
The more entangled your nation gets in Ukraine, the more likely war will spread to you - and you will have nobody to blame but yourselves for allying with nazis and American imperialists.
Just after Kremlin stops funding nazis in my country, and most of Europe. Russia can stop the war anytime, it just needs to go back to it's borders, how hard can that be? Cuz if it's meant to stop a possible war with NATO that's clearly not going according to plan and at they are still mostly fighting NATO tech from the 80's operated by silly Ukrainians who had a few months of NATO training?
See, this type of russian propaganda fear-mongering doesent work on Polish people, because one - we have lived under Russian occupation or threat of invasion for the last 200 years, and two - we know that unless it stops in Ukraine the war will come to us soon after. Oh and three; dying heroically is the basis of national ethos here, if you took a few minutes to skim the history of the region about every generation Poles would have a suicidal uprising against the occupiers, well knowing it will fail.
Also in about a year Poland itself, without the rest of NATO, will have more main battle tanks and rocket artillery than Russia. There was a time when we were afraid as a society, but Ukraine clearly showed we can challenge Russian imperialism and increasingly likely - win.
tl;dr come at us bro
you've chosen your side, with the Banderites, Israelis, Al-Qaeda and American fascists. Have fun class traitor.
Funny thing I'm literally chilling after running trainings for trade unions for the last few days. I work for trade unions full time, while (separately) being a member of the most radical one in the country. You at least have a union card, or you only commie on the net?
Trade unionists who support Nationalism and Imperialism are class traitors. Thanks for further cementing what you are. Banderites are anti-communists who burned trade unionist halls down and slaughtered the trade unionists. You side with your enemies because, as I said, you are a traitor and deeply confused or reactionary.
Yeah, I'd agree with that, absolutely. See, that's the fun part here; you're mostly arguing with a straw-man in your head, and not with someone who committed his life to class struggle but holds slightly different beliefs/optics than you do.
But also - so yeah, you're not even in a union, miserable keyboard warrior :D
when those different beliefs are "we should give weaponry to banderites to ethnically cleanse russians" then you've gone off the deep end and are fully a fascist. There's no coming back from it.
And where did I state that? Or going deeper into your delusions; if I'm a Polish nationalist, why would I want to arm banderites, of all people? They brutally butchered 50-120k Polish people; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia And how would one go ethnically cleansing 140 million Russians, especially using a comparably tiny, half-failed state of Ukraine, which for the most part is only operating inside of it's own borders? Do you really make any sens to yourself?
You did notice it is a critique of it at the same time? Simply trying to explain that it's hard to scare with war citizens of a country which public education teaches it's kids songs glorifying child soldiers. We even got some monuments if that was not clear enough for the youngsters...
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Insurrectionist
BTW Russia does the same, and at least we don't have to play assembling AK's in primary school. That's for high-school as it should be.
That's a whole lot of words to say "capitalist Russia sucks in the same ways as every other place we've destabilized, and I have done no inquiry into the causality behind why because it confirms my priors to simply believe that "Russians" (which russians?) are just ontologically bad somehow"
Granting your nazi ass a seriousness it doesn't deserve for a second to talk to the other libs, this is where nationalism brain fails as a way of viewing the world. All you can talk about is Russia this and Ukraine that, as if we're talking about hive minds. All liberals do this, implying a unity that doesn't exist to paper over the reality of class warfare that actually drives these wars. As long as your analysis is built on assumptions of countries as single unified beings (a fairy tale for children) you will always fail to grasp the real causes of state actions.
Nah, I'm just pointing out it's a deeply corrupt, deeply violent authoritarian state. Been to China, been to some "3rd world" countries, and my own was a bloody neo-lib laboratory on the verge of collapse for most of my youth years and it's still all very different from Russia. Ukraine is very much an effect of destabilization efforts, that I could easily agree. But Russia? It had a system that it's leaders run to the ground themselves, a system that starved the "breadbasket" of Europe, and that went bankrupt despite having every possible resource earth could give. In the process it also destroyed the humanity of it's loyal subjects and corrupted the rest of forced them to run. Maybe it's just me, but it would seem to be the theme of any Russian counter-culture text and song over the lat 40 years as well, have a song, or another one. And now it has a government that reignites old nationalist and threatens to either invade or nuclear annihilate my country about every month (in voices of state figures, not some randos).
Fan fact in calling me a nazi in defense of Russia (apart from the fact I'm a well known antifa organiser); a family member was in the military intelligence (of the underground "Home Army") over WW2. He took part in some wild missions, like obtaining V2 rocket and delivering it to allies (as the Soviets were still cooperating with Nazis, would have be closer...). The guy went through Warsaw Uprising, the biggest antifascist uprising of WW2 (and arguably the most mindless suicide attack on nazis at a country level scale). But he survived both that and the concentration camp afterwards. And than he barely survived half a year of torture in soviet run prison. He did so only, as they never figured out his rank, he'd be shot as all other officers were. Never recovered from what they did to him tho. Wasn't the gestapo, wasn't plain fighting in a guerilla warfare against the nazis for over 5 years, it was the commissars that got him. Impressively that's the type of "anti-nazism" you favor, still.
If only there was a term for believing everyone that doesn't share your exact vision of the world is an enemy to be dehumanized and destroyed...
So anyway - fuck you, and enjoy the rest of the evening in your own shit. I'm off for a walk in a lovely snow covered hills.
This is some professional level obliviousness, willful ignorance, and weaponized misunderstanding on display. Bravo.
Sorry, your right. I must stand corrected; by the time Polish underground went V2 shopping Soviets were not best friends with Nazis anymore.
I admire your continued professionalism
What are you referring to, exactly?
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Here, have some context. You guys cant stand the fact, that someone might be anti-imperialist; anti-US but also anti-Russian imperialism? Is it that hard to comprehend?
1: You literally don't know what imperialism is
2: You posted this three hours ago, and haven't stopped posting since:
When are you going for that walk?
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It's cold and dark outside, it's not like I would spend the rest of the night out mate... Was going to stop, but you'r sect keeps on coming and it's funny in a way - see you people deeply unable to prove any of your beliefs and hitting with the most tried and miss-target arguments you can pull.
But also, pleas do provide your definition of imperialism!
Please, tell us more about how the Soviet Union was itching to join the Anti-Comintern Pact.
Ive no idea what tankie conspiracy your referencing right now, im not that much into this lore.