- cross-posted to:
- fediverse@discuss.online
- cross-posted to:
- fediverse@discuss.online
cross-posted from: https://literature.cafe/post/7623718
cross-posted from: https://literature.cafe/post/7623713
I made a blog post discussing my biggest issues with Lemmy and why I am kind of done with it as a software.
You must log in or register to comment.
There is a lot of misleading information in this post.
Something that I notice said consistently by those who have little experience in Lemmy admin spaces is “why not just contribute then?”And the answer people try. And this happens. This unfortunately leads into the next point that is the developer teams behavior.
Dessalines and I had some discussion whether the linked issue should be closed or not. Anyway we decided to leave it open in the end. Then some weeks later a user came along and made a completely offtopic complaint that this decision making process is somehow wrong. I admit that I overreacted by giving a temporary ban for this, but mistakes happen and its completely disingenious to spin this as some sort of general toxic behaviour from our side.
There is a fundamental lack of confidence amongst a majority of Lemmy instance admins towards the lead developers of Lemmy.
This is your opinion and I doubt it is as widespread as you think.
Another aspect of this is that the Lemmy devs run two instances: lemmy.ml & lemmygrad.ml
What makes you believe this? I can only speak for myself, and I am not involved with lemmygrad in any way.
The biggest piece that broke all confidence in the Lemmy developers amongst many admins including myself is that during the CSAM spam attacks there was complete radio silence. The developers made no statement on the matter. And when Github requests were made to try and propose ideas about how to fix what happened, the developers explicitly stated they didn’t have time to focus on that. No dialogue.
Correct the CSAM wave was handled by admins on their own. As far as I remember there were no specific feature requests that would have helped in this regard, and anyway they would have taken too long to implement and publish.
As well, when a post was made about Sublinks (A project I will touch a bit more on, and am involved in due to the reasons I have highlighted above) the comments that were made by Lemmy’s lead developers were extremely petty. This lessens peoples confidence in your project, not improves it.
Why do you consider it petty? Its a fact that jgrim never opened any issue for the features he wanted, not did he attempt to contribute with a pull request. Its also true that it took multiple years of fulltime work to get Lemmy ready for production, and I dont see how Sublinks can be any faster when it has only volunteer contributors. That doesnt mean I wish for Sublinks to fail, in fact I hope it will be successful so that admins and users have more choices available, and to improve resilience through independent codebases and development teams.
Generally you seem to have an extremely entitled attitude. Lemmy is an open source project that is provided for free. I would also love to fix all the problems that users report, and implement all those features. But unlike Reddit we are not a billion dollar company with thousands of employees. We are just two individuals funded by donations and working from our homes. There is only a limited number of hours in each day and only so much work we can finish in that time. If you are unhappy with Lemmy then by all means switch to a different platform, because we dont get any direct benefit from having more users.
It is unfortunate that this is what you have decided to take away from the blog post instead of reflecting on the criticism I have provided. Instead of reflecting on my list of legitimate criticism you have decided to call me entitled and hone in on small aspects of the blog post in attempt to dismiss it completely. Per usual, it is everyone else that seems to be the problem but you. I outlined my own issues with lemmy after a LOT of patience and goodwill. That's lost, and this comment solidifies further why I will switch away from lemmy as soon as I get the chance. Whether you decide to accept the points I have made is on you but ultimately your refusal to recognize the issues I have outlined will cause this project to fade away completely. And that's really sad. I love lemmy as a project and an idea.
Responding to false criticism is important. For example you were under the mistaken impression that we reject pull requests or issues, or don't care about moderation? All of those are provably false. Look at all the moderation PRs I've closed in the past MONTH alone. This is all easily verifiable if you go to our github accounts and see what we're working on.
You also heard second hand that the sublinks developer is making sublinks because they got a bad reception from us, or were told that we'd reject features? They've never opened a single issue or PR.
Your post seems to mostly be 2nd-hand rumors from people who already don't like us, and not from any people that are actually working on Lemmy. That's perfectly fine, but it'd be wrong to not address these false criticisms.
Entitlement in open source is a real thing, and you would know our pain if you ran a codebase currently in use by > 40k people monthly. To put so much demands on so few people, entitled to their free labor while contributing nothing back, is a terrible thing to do to a person. It'd be like if I criticized my grandmother's free meal for it not being to my liking, and demanded she make it my way.
Thx a ton for yall's support, I really appreciate it. Moderation tools will always be a work in progress, especially with such a complicated distributed system where mod actions need to federate, but we'll get there.
From the blog
Something that I notice said consistently by those who have little experience in Lemmy admin spaces is “why not just contribute then?”
And the answer people try. And this happens. This unfortunately leads into the next point that is the developer teams behavior. As well, highlighted above in the blog post of that Lemmy user who unfortunately had to deal with devs behavior themselves.
From https://programming.dev/post/5180682
I will no longer be able to assist with development nor debugging actual issues with the software… Quite juvenile behavior from the devs. It stemmed from this issue where the devs continuously argued in public by opening and closing an issue. Anyway, thought I would keep y’all apprised of the situation, since these are the people maintaining the software you are currently using.
Root issue: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/234
1st snowe's comment
This is a really weird thing to have an argument about. Scheduling client side would be a nightmare, like how Microsoft Outlook handles emails where you schedule an email for the morning, close your laptop, and then the email doesn't send because your laptop is asleep.
But even then arguing about it through reopening and closing an issue is really weird. Leave the issue open, have a discussion, talk about the pros and cons of putting it in the software, and then make a decision with the community.
2nd snowe's comment
And then marking the most relevant comment in the thread as off-topic. You're really alienating your users and server admins with this. Have the discussion like adults.
Full of
.
There's hardly any arguing if you look at the timeline of the 2 devs's comments. 7 days temp ban to chill looks ok to me.I don't believe he's still on it, I worked it out with snowe a few months ago and we apologized to each other. I think the blog post is just bringing up stale drama.
Whew! That's a relief. I had thought too that that drama had indeed been resolved months ago. Definitely don't like seeing talented developers (or really anyone for that matter) at odds over such a small interaction that has little impact on anyone's lives outside of its immediate scope.
Your frustration is palpable and that's disappointing. Lemmy has improved a lot since we all arrived while the software experience is a lot smoother, admins have been clamouring for moderation tools the whole time. Ultimately there needs to be more contribution to do everything that everyone wants, but moderation needs to be a higher priority for sure.
I will say this though. I know you dislike developers discussing, disagreeing or even arguing, but I actually think it's nice to see things in the open.
Whether you find happiness here or elsewhere in the fediverse, I wish you the best of success and not just because you host one of my communities 😂
Feels like a lot of recent complaints about lemmy come down to a funding issue; the main reason things aren't accepted is the devs are too busy.
@dessalines@lemmy.ml @nutomic@lemmy.ml
I am one of the Beehaw admins.
I, personally, have not had negative experiences with you or anyone else associated with the Lemmy software platform.
I appreciate that everyone here, in this thread, has been able to vocalize their praises and constructive criticisms.
I believe that it is very important, for the further development of the fediverse, to keep these conversations open to everyone involved.
Please, let us all reflect on the reasons that we are invested in the fediverse.
Personally, I believe that the fediverse has an enormous potential to replace all of the corporate-run social media platforms.
I am invested in Beehaw and the fediverse for the sake of the people.
I appreciate it, Thank you. It can seem pretty thankless to put so much time into something that you hope is making the world a (slightly) better place, only to have a few people get angry that this free public good you're providing, isn't up to their high standards (and they're not willing to help fix it).
It's quite exciting to have a similar link aggregation as an option, hope it will federate well with lemmy and the rest of the fediverse. If it can fully federate with mastodon(like able to follow user like a community or something) it will be super. Not sure i understand why open modlog is an issue but to each its own.
Terribly unsearchable name though.
Am I the only one who cannot read the blog post? When I click on it, from the blog or from the link posted on Lemmy, I only obtain a visualization of a JSON file. By looking at the comments, people seem to have been able to read it, but how?
You aren't, it's a weird issue with the activitypub plugin I am having. I'm contemplating removing the plugin itself due to this.
I finally have been able to see the blog post directly by refreshing the page. When I go back on the page of the blog post a moment after, it is displayed as expected. It is a weird bug.
I removed the plugin causing the issue and cleared the cache.
