The poll also found that a majority of Ukrainians believe the United States (58%) and NATO (55%) bear either a great deal or some responsibility for the conflict.
So, I guess, there is a substantial section that believes Ukraine bears responsibility for the war and also want peace to include formal integration of Donbass and Crimea... so I guess they thought Ukraine was launching an aggressive war to get territory back and also like that it did that? I guess it squares with the neonazi shit, wonder how much as a percentage that is of the population.
There is also a significant segment of population willing to give up Crimea but not Donbass.
Sounds like it's not just there leaders that are delusional over there
Judging by all the photos it seems like, at least to me, that a lot are Nazis
Non-Nazis aren't particularly keen to go dying on the Eastern Front.
Based on the survey it looks like that’s a similar percent to those that think Ukraine will will the war.
It makes sense in a way why concede to something you think is losing.
Now why they think that way is another question.
Aren't most of the people capable of fighting already at the front? Assuming that they're not being polled while on active duty, of course the people who don't think they'll have to fight will vote for no concessions.
I can't believe Putin would attack and degrade the average Ukrainian's faith in their government and western institutions like this.
Will the campaign of dezinformatsiya ever end?
dezinformatsiya
I watched this show called Bodyguard on Netflix and they used the term “kompromat” quite often. Then after the Steele dossier came out I heard libs started using it. I’m wholly convinced they learned that word from the show because I’ve never seen it used in the modern west before
You're probably right
West Wing brain is just the terminal stage of bazinga brain
70% of Ukrainians are Russian trolls, I mean just look at the way they write their language in Cyrillic! Dead give away.
Not posting this here to be one of those people who blames the West and Europe for absolutely everything. I do believe that Russia has agency / that Putin made a choice. But I do believe that it's a bit more complex than the unprovoked random attack the Western press makes it out to be.
Here's the direct PDF of the poll: https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/documents/WSJ_NORC_Ukraine_Poll_June_2022.pdf
The 70% breaks down as 47% believe Ukraine's government has "a great deal" of responsibility and 24% believe "some". (I know those add up to 71, but rounding errors, e.g. 23.7 + 46.6)
The poll was conducted by the nonpartisan and objective research organization (NORC) at the University of Chicago ; I admit to not knowing much about them, so if someone wants to expose an agenda go ahead.
NORC's alright. As far as the general bias of the University of Chicago is concerned, you'd expect anything operating under their purview to show significant disfavor to Russia and generally support the "Liberal World Order" (NATO/US) line. The full survey results are sort of a mixed bag. Individual professors there are certainly more and less able to be shoehorned into one particular angle though, John Mearsheimer for instance is very critical of the NATO/US position on Russia.
The actual survey was conducted by "Info Sapiens" (a Kyiv, UA based research company) with such gems as: https://sapiens.com.ua/en/publication-single-page?id=224
For some reason they don't know how to use quotation marks:
“With each passing day of the war, Ukrainians are increasingly delegating responsibility for hostilities not only to the Russian government, but to all citizens of Russia. This is natural for Ukraine, where people feel that they are the subject of decisions in the country, - said Inna Volosevych, Deputy Director of Info Sapiens. - Therefore, instead of expressing their anger (the poll took place after the facts of atrocities in the Kyiv region were made public), Ukrainians are trying to reach out to Russians. This is largely in vain – 36% of Russians indicate they can't even influence their own lives, not to mention Putin's decisions, which they either blindly believe or can't oppose.
In particular, Russian experts indicate that the Russians can be reached only by the economic consequences of the war and personal losses, and not by logic or evidence of atrocities. Even if objective information breaks through, it is perceived through the prism of propaganda and therefore it does not work. But I think it's still worth trying, and I'm glad that Ukrainians keep their humanity despite the genocide against them.”
This is unrelated, but Dmitri Lascaris delivered a really powerful polemical point in a debate a few years ago that I have never heard anyone else since, so I wanted to share it:
In response to a lib he was debating identifying a moderate:
I briefly joined the green party to vote for him in the leadership election.
I wonder whether its better that he lost by a few percentage points, considering that their communications dude or whatever somehow managed to blow up the party.
Regardless I have not been able to get them to stop emailing me.
I did too.
FWIW I don't think the communications guy blew up the party, it was that Paul stuck by him. Paul blew up the party, Lascaris might have as well but would at least have forced some good and needed conversations.
Yeah I completely forgot about Paul defending the dude.
One funny thing is my turbo lib father was rooting for Paul to win the leadership race (despite not following it all) for her “fresh perspective” or something.
I mean that's basically why she won, so many Canadians don't have politics at all, and just wanted identitarian representation so they can feel like good libs
it's interesting that they blame ukrainian govt at 70 %, USA at 58%, and NATO at 55%.
I think USA/NATO should come in first place here, since they're the ones that did the Yatsenyuk coup in 2014, enabled the ukrainian far right through the National Endowment for Democracy CIA front group, and insisted on Zelensky saying no to Minsk II.
And if you wind the clock back further, USA/NATO is responsible for much of the instability in Eastern Europe. Backing Yeltsin to force economic shock therapy onto the USSR after Gorbachev had already dissolved the USSR was disastrous for millions.
Lmao. Remember how most Ukrainians didn’t want to be part of NATO for a long ass time?
Of course, none of this means that Russia is blameless for the war – indeed, the poll found that a huge majority of respondents (85%) believe that Russia bears a great deal (82%) or some (3%) responsibility for the war – but the claim that Ukraine’s government, the U.S. and NATO are innocent in this disaster simply cannot be reconciled with the views of the Ukrainian people.
