To everyone ready with their pitchforks, here is a scenario: lemmy.world may receive a court order (subpoena?) mandating they disclose data on people actively accessing pirate communities. As it happened with Reddit, they may ask for logs and IP addresses of people commenting, posting or perhaps even up/down voting content.
Even though none of the content is being posted/hosted with this instance, admins may be asked to betray user trust - or to go battle claimants in court. It's a lose-lose for them, so maybe let's cut them some slack, eh?
Yup, they're a big target and being a big target means more liability. Spreading the fediverse is good for us all. It means taking down piracy is like whack a mole.
Concern trolling about the legality of discussing piracy is just a distraction. Their goal is to serve ads on their site, and removing all references to piracy is a step towards that.
How can they even serve ads if you dont use their website? Wouldnt other websites and apps need to implement ads for it to work?
However Meta decides to serve ads on Threads or Threads content. Whatever it takes, Threads will definitely do ads, as they are owned by an advertising company, but we don't really know how LemmyWorld will do ads until those ads are live.
Threads can only display ads on their app
if lemmy.world adds ads, people can just not use the lemmy.world website
As far as i know they cant force other apps to show ads
Threads can only display ads on their app
What is stopping them from adding ads to the website?
if lemmy.world adds ads, people can just not use the lemmy.world website
That's what I imagine happening, a few people can't stand it and leave or use uBlock, and the rest of the userbase gets served ads
As far as i know they cant force other apps to show ads
Not unless ads are a footer or something in post or comment content. That's an intellectual property gray area, I wonder what will happen.
eugh, if they embedded them as posts, they'd be federating the ads as well.
How do they expect to serve ads to people with that abysmal uptime that they have. They literally go down every single day, and that's probably just from one person from hexbear who's pissed at them, imagine how bad it's going to be after this, or if they even started running ads.
If they actually are planning on running ads I don't foresee it going very well for them. Maybe it will maybe they'll be financially successful but I bet they're probably also going to get defederated and therefore not platform successful.
How do they expect to serve ads to people with that abysmal uptime that they have.
The probably see it differently, that their uptime is limited by their funding, and additional revenue would help uptime.
Maybe it will maybe they'll be financially successful but I bet they're probably also going to get defederated and therefore not platform successful.
The current logic I've seen about why instances continue to federate with LemmyWorld is that they're "too big to fail", the same logic applied to Threads, and I don't see ads changing that. If Threads uses a more PR-friendly way of running ads when they inevitably do, maybe LemmyWorld will copy whatever ad-serving method that is.
[...] and that's probably just from one person from hexbear who's pissed at them, [...]
You probably saw someone else say this, rather than making it up yourself, but Hexbear does not DOS anyone, please don't repeat misinformation
The probably see it differently, that their uptime is limited by their funding, and additional revenue would help uptime.
They know that they are being DDoSed and have stated as much themselves, where are you getting this information, it sounds like you're arguing that the downtime is because of massive user registrations and not from an attack like they said themselves, even the activity charts shown are indicative of an intentional attack, rather than user load, a single sharp spike in requests or activity preceding downtime instead of a large hump.
The current logic I’ve seen about why instances continue to federate with LemmyWorld is that they’re “too big to fail”, the same logic applied to Threads, and I don’t see ads changing that. If Threads uses a more PR-friendly way of running ads when they inevitably do, maybe LemmyWorld will copy whatever ad-serving method that is.
Uh threads has been defederated preemtively by several fairly large instances due to concerns regarding what Meta's control over it and how it will affect federation. Lemmy.world hasn't done anything to suggest they would be a significant privacy and security risk to users, at least not yet, pushing ads to federated servers or collecting and selling user data would absolutely change that I guarantee it.
You probably saw someone else say this, rather than making it up yourself, but Hexbear does not DOS anyone, please don’t repeat misinformation
I did indeed hear it from others, don't worry you guys aren't the only suspects in that, though you can't really prove someone from as in registered to Hexbear isn't behind them. I'm not saying they are or aren't affiliated with Hexbear itself but one theory is that it's a person from hexbear and you can't prove that it isn't unless you know who's behind it. Honestly I heard from many admins (Lemmy.world and others) that Hexbear has a spam/trolling/brigading problem so it wouldn't surprise me if a problematic user there was behind it, or at least collaborating in the effort.
I didn't and won't go as far to accuse the instance owners themselves of being behind the attack but I won't say it isn't a user from Hexbear because nether you or I can prove that it isn't.
[...] it sounds like you're arguing that the downtime is because of massive user registrations and not from an attack like they said themselves [...]
I have no idea where their downtime is from. If it is DOS-related, though, they would protect against it using a DDOS protection service like CloudFlare, which costs $$$
Lemmy.world hasn't done anything to suggest they would be a significant privacy and security risk to users, at least not yet
They have, though. The LemmyWorld admins doxxed a user who they believed (incorrectly) to be Hexbear admin CARCOSA@hexbear.net. Source: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/1754850
[...], pushing ads to federated servers or collecting and selling user data would absolutely change that I guarantee it.
We'll see, but the larger they grow, the more permanent they get, and ads only affects that so much.
I didn't and won't go as far to accuse the instance owners themselves of being behind the attack but I won't say it isn't a user from Hexbear because nether you or I can prove that it isn't.
Hexbear is not more suspect than other instances, and there is no reason to name-drop Hexbear, alone, in particular. If they're being DOSed, then whoever is responsible is most likely involved in a community that has a culture of DOSing in general, like a Chan, maybe the same one that has actively been responsible for vandalizing Lemmy instances.
I have no idea where their downtime is from. If it is DOS-related, though, they would protect against it using a DDOS protection service like CloudFlare, which costs $$$
They currently do use Cloudflare actually, doesn't magically stop all forms of DDoS though (ever heard of SQL queries, some of them can take seconds to execute). Anyway I only said that because a big misconception by people is that Lemmy.world's uptime problem is caused by "the Reddit hug of death" as in user traffic and that it's a scaling issue, when it isn't.
They have, though. The LemmyWorld admins doxxed a user who they believed (incorrectly) to be Hexbear admin CARCOSA@hexbear.net. Source: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/1754850
That's pretty bad, though honestly it still pales in comparison to Facebook's awful history with collection and selling user data, though I guess how each instance views it. Maybe lemmy.ml (one of the biggest instances to ban threads) would use this to justify defederating from world (maybe I'll let them know about it and see what they say, I know they're certainly not going to go hunting for it on their own).
We’ll see, but the larger they grow, the more permanent they get, and ads only affects that so much.
I guess we'll have to wait and see how it pans out
Hexbear is not more suspect than other instances, and there is no reason to name-drop Hexbear, alone, in particular. If they’re being DOSed, then whoever is responsible is most likely involved in a community that has a culture of DOSing in general, like a Chan, maybe the same one that has actively been responsible for vandalizing Lemmy instances.
I have indeed seen many things that do elevate Hexbear on the list as of the possible origins of an attack, but there isn't any reason it couldn't also be from one of the chans or any instance that was defederated from them.
It does seem a bit weird to me though that you are strangely adamant about defending Hexbear, which does also make me slightly more suspicious, though that isn't definitive, many people will defend their instances for totally innocuous reasons. Anyway we're done with this, there was drama and concern (from several instances, not just world) and there's no point in arguing about it when we can't prove anything for certain here. Also this isn't exactly the place for a debate, this is c/piracy not a debate forum.
I left Reddit because of bans, shadowbans, and powermods. A few weeks on Lemmy and we now have bans from powermods. This sucks.
And then just go participate from the instance that got banned like nothing even happened
Is that really the case though? They are saying they didn't want to risk legal troubles which sounds reasonable to me considering they're just your average people with a hobby.
They're not risking legal troubles unless they receive and don't comply with a DMCA takedown request. Like I said elsewhere, this is about making their site friendly to advertisers.
The difference is that now you have the option to go to another instance and still access the same content. It's not ideal but much better than yhe community being permanently gone.
Absurd. None of these communities are even hosted on lemmy.world.
lemmy.world has more downtime than France's administration anyway,. so at least we can still sail the high seas while they're down.
Absurd. None of these communities are even hosted on lemmy.world.
This is the answer, period. They aren't hosting infringing content, they're barely even linking to discussion of it. Most of the piracy communities here on Lemmy all have rules about not directly linking to any infringing content.
It's a fucking joke by people who think they're doing something to protect their users but are actually just fucking around wasting time and energy.
One of the L.W admins has said that it could be a temporary measure and they are just seeking advice about their legal exposure. They're also going to speak to one of the admins over here. So it might just resolve itself.
I already made an account here, I honestly can't count on lemmy.world to not defederate or block random communities. Even if they take back that decision I still don't have as much trust in them as I once did.
The nature of federation and defederation makes it sensible to have a few accounts, to get around defederating and as general backup in case your home instance goes down. I imagine some apps will allow you to combine feeds from different accounts and this issue will be smoothed over.
I think the liftoff app already has a feature like this, it's been a bit buggy for me though, but that might just be because of lemmy.world's uptime issues due to the ongoing attacks and maybe it would work better if I didn't have a login for lemmy.world on the app.
"We decided to apologize instead of asking for permission."
Seems more than reasonable. In every case like this, I try to ask if I was in their shoes and I had that level of responsibility, what would I do?
I think anyone minded to check our piracy content knows where to find it and can register to one of those instances. This allows lemmy.world to remain a general purpose open instance for people migrating who don't yet know what they are after.
This could actually be an incentive for people to move away from world and that gives a little more space for people to move across and dip their toes in the lemmy ocean.
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The LW admins are assholes.
EDIT: Rooki in the LW Discord is defending the behavior and calling the people trolls. He's also trying to say that the admins make mistakes and should be forgiven.
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You have to remember that these are people that left Reddit, which was notorious for a self reinforcing echo chamber they are about to be rudely awakened by the harsh reality of freedom of speech. People are either going to buy their bullshit or leave no amount of whining about it. On our end. It is really gonna fix it.
As I keep saying everywhere else the admins of the various instances are likely going to have to abide by the laws of their land. If you don’t like that instance move on
I've said it before - it's political, until I read a statement from* the local party.
Plz can someone ELi5, how the hell being member of one of those communities "supposed" to provide assistance to access copyrighted/pirated material, can be harmful to lemmy.world if al what I'm doing is to be subscribed to their communites via my current account to be able to interact to posts there while i'm of course respecting their rules. It's like, hey you tolerate illegal immigration, so i'm banning you from visiting my city.
