I didn't expect a struggle session or treat defending in a thread about international corporate-scale fucking sports gambling.
What is even left to be leftist about if someone is totally fine with ever-growing sports gambling conglomerates destroying the livelihoods (and even the lives) of individuals and everyone around them while performing one of the most direct poor-to-rich wealth transfers there is?
it's driving me nuts lol. sorry to debatelord but clearly people learned that drug prohibition doesn't work (true) and are drawing a complete false equivalency here.
There's a consistency at its core: "making something illegal doesn't make it impossible, therefore nothing should be illegal, especially if it's a treat I like."
i have to say i get the urge cause I'm an alcoholic and a smoker but I recognise in a utopian view of the future those things are hopefully going away lol. it's a knee jerk reactionary urge that ppl need to learn to recognise and fight in themselves
I feel the same way.
I have my own vices, and it would be particularly selfish of me to believe that because they're my vices that they aren't harmful ones and everyone should be into mine.
Feel like making illegal doesn't necessarily solve the problem either. Best thing to do would be banning advertising and heavily regulating apps - no notifications etc.
making gambling illegal is harm reduction actually. it's not a direct equivalency with drugs. you can make moonshine in your bathtub without detection, the govt has the power to shut down corporate gambling operations and I would bet ;) that most customers won't bother moving to the underground option. (which can also be shut down much more easily than a drug ring) it is harm reduction. I don't know why so many people feel the need to defend its existence here.
Not really defending its existence, more trying to figure out what the best solution is.
I think you have a good point though.
yeah sorry I didn't think that was your intention but others in the thread are doing it from what's clearly a latent libertarian mindset.
I also saw this. I wonder how much the legal gambling also just opened up pandoras box. I think that a lot of people, especially whales, end up on offshore sites anyways because of better odds and less overall rake. And of course there are also underground sportsbooks still for the biggest players, like Shohei Ohtani's former interpreter who got caught gambling millions of stolen money this spring.
And also, even in CA there are "fantasy games" (tickpick, underdog, even jake paul is affiliated with one of them) and there are "social gambling" sites that use the "sweepstakes" loophole, such as fliff sportsbook and chumba casino. These ones, you pay money for a "fun currency" and you also get "sweeps cash" that is basically a premium currency on their site that can be gambled for real cash. But even the off shore sites are pretty heavily advertised on social media, such as stake and bovada.
Regardless of the actual mechanisms of gambling that are available in your state, the prevalence of the advertising is nauseating. Draftkings/mgm/fanduel ads are all over sports stadiums. Beyond that though, some channels, especially ESPN, show tons of actual odds during their broadcast alongside an ad for their own platform, espnbet. The massive influx of gambling money is tainting sports overall.
Im glad my favorite sports franchise has yet to take any gambling ads, but still when they have a game on ESPN i have to put up with the odds bullshit, in addition to everything else that is total garbage about that channel.
Also, players themselves are being harassed on the field and online by people blaming them for a bet that didnt hit. Some players even received cash app requests to pay back a bet that they ruined.
I dont think it will be banned in mosr states, but congress should have the power to at least curb the advertising specifically, because that should fall under interstate commerce.
I live in CA, a state that still hosts a lottery, another form of expooitative gambling that should be banned or severely restricted. No need to have slot machines on paper at every gas station and convenience store.
there's a good (extremely bleak) trueanon on this ep 209 , also they recommended a book that sounds great addiction by design haven't read but on my list a while
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Lmao, I just started listening to this and they immediately compare it to legalizing heroin and giving control of the heroin industry to tobacco companies, with the implication that that would obviously be incredibly bad.
Turns out half the people in this thread think that that's a great idea actually.
Oh my God then they started talking about self-identified socialists now having a libertarian streak and thinking restrictions on people's actions by a Nanny State are bad.
I think the question to ask about this is why it's such a unique problem to america. Much like guns.
Here in the UK 15% of men do online gambling and 4% of women. Ok so the top line of data says that 40% of people do gambling but this is only because of scratchcards at petrol stations. When you remove these it drops to 15 and 4.
Why is this situation so significantly worse in america? What is unique about american society and culture that causes 33% of americans to be betting on sports, let alone other stuff?
Supreme court struck down a law banning sports gambling in 2018 on the logic that "illegal gambling is already happening, might as well make it legal and cut out the criminals!". The now-legal betting companies started pushing a non-stop torrent of pro-gambling ads immediately.
Australia is also pretty bad, see below:
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So is the problem marketing?
I don't know what differences lie in the marketing that is allowed here vs US.
I think the apps originated in silicon valley, so they had tons of money behind them that was willing to make a marketing push. Ads for them were already present as early as 2015 IIRC, even when they were still technically illegal, but nobody got arrested that I know of.
"Capitalism with American Characteristics" is a disease that is poisoning every part of society. I believe it breeds desperation and a "fuck it" attitude and drives people to reckless behavior, aggression, and distrust of others.
I'm not immune. I kind of hate most people, especially here. Society sucks, most people suck.
Its also a major issue elsewhere. Australia for example has a pretty horrific gambling problem and the government rolled back promises to ban gambling advertising.
legalizing it is fine IMO, it's probably better than black market gambling. but the ads being everywhere is terrible. advertising cigarettes on tv is illegal, should be the same for gambling
Death to America
haven't watched the video, but right now in Brazil legalized sports gambling is such a menace that its driving a substantial portion of the poorest into debt. influencer driven online scams are one thing, but sports gambling goes to the heart of what little community we have left via sports.
For profit sports betting operations should absolutely not be legal. Gambling on your smart phone, which is already an addicting dopamine machine, should absolutely not be legal.
I don't gamble and am actively repulsed by how it's being pushed as hip and cool. That said, I'm surprised by the hardline abolition stances in here. Drugs (including alcohol) are surely far more corrosive to people's wellbeing, but no one on here is arguing for prohibition, right?
in a true utopian vision there would be little to no want for any of these things. I agree drug prohibition sucks but prohibition of drugs is different to prohibition of gambling. it's hard to stop people making bathtub moonshine. gambling prohibition is harm reduction if done right because a small wager between friends is relatively harmless + ideally in socialism or whatever your buddy won't be set up to take 10 grand bets off you and all your friends on the game. I'm largely a drug liberationist too but you need some control or at least oversight + intervention mechanisms. and I still believe in a utopian vision where all those vices will be more or less transcended. in end stage communism there will not be liquor stores where you can buy 2 litres of vodka at 4am, that's harmful. I'm an alcoholic so maybe I do have contradictory views on this but I just deeply believe it's a societal ill same as gambling. other drugs it's more of a case by case basis. largely they are still bad, this is a lesson the left should have learned since the 1960s. but again in communism ideally people aren't feeling the need to get strung out on heroin that shit is a palliative for living in capitalism. so when it comes to drugs it's more of a utopian transcending the thing but gambling could be effectively tamped down under socialism. even under capitalism it's probs better if it's outlawed tbh. sorry it's unstructured and probably repeated myself just typed my thoughts up very fast.
For me there should be no abolition, but what has happened is a few predatory companies given free rein to exploit vulnerable people. There were offshore bookies and stuff before, but the level of exploitation (through advertising on mainstream sports networks, not to mention online ads) is unreal and definitely created this problem.
And it's crazy how it all sprang up like mushrooms too. Banning ads like they did with cigarettes would help but the cat is already somewhat out of the bag for people who have gotten hooked
only idealists scream for consistency in everything. embrace living in contradictions and struggling with them
I think dangerous drugs should be prohibited.
You think drugs should just be freely available to the public? All of them? You wouldn't prohibit meth? Heroin? Cocaine?
Are we talking about prohibition or restriction? I fully support restrictions on dangerous drugs, but hasn't it been consistently shown that outlawing vices entirely doesn't stop their consumption and just makes it more dangerous (especially for poor people)?
If we're basing this off danger, then alcohol is the much more immediate concern given how easily available and culturally accepted it is while still being quite bad for you
outlawing vices entirely doesn't stop their consumption and just makes it more dangerous (especially for poor people)?
We're in a thread about how legalizing sports betting is driving poor people further into poverty. The idea that legalization is inherently harm reduction is completely divorced from reality.
i agree its a total false equivalence here drugs and gambling are in fact different and one is a lot easier to stop people doing in harmful ways
You think drugs should just be freely available to the public?
I do. A lot of the danger of drugs is mitigated by quality control and education.
In the United States we have an opioid epidemic fueled by quality controlled, regulated drugs given out by medical professionals in spite of generally widespread knowledge that opioids are dangerous and addictive.
I think that a lot of people say stuff like what you're claiming, but I don't really buy it.
it's the same thing as prison abolition where secretly it's not really that. I consider myself a drug liberationist but you can't just let people kill themselves with heroin or take antibiotics whenever. there would still need to be mechanisms of control oversight and intervention. ultimately the goal is to transcend the need for these vices of course.
Why are opioids dangerous? And why do people get addictes? Its not because of their availability
Aside from causing permanent brain damage?
Because they impair your judgement and kill you if you take too much which you could easily do do if your judgement is impaired?
Also, yes it fucking is because of the availability. The reason it became a massive epidemic is that every other doctor in the country became a drug dealer for dangerous recreational drugs.
you take too much
See my previous comment
Also, yes it fucking is because of the availability. The reason it became a massive epidemic is that every other doctor in the country became a drug dealer for dangerous recreational drugs.
And why were they doing this? Because the drugs were available or because it was profitable?
They did it because people came to them and asked for it. Making them over the counter would make this vastly vastly worse in every way.
See my previous comment
I don't follow. Are you saying that if people understand the dangers of overdosing they'll quit doing it? Because if so I think you're ignoring the impaired judgement.
And why were they doing this? Because the drugs were available or because it was profitable?
The drugs are available because they're profitable. Giving them to anyone who asks for free won't make them safer.
And the ads are fucking everywhere. Entire train stations with every square inch of advertising space plastered with Jamie Foxx or whatever washed up scumbag piece of shit actor they could find.
Sports should be illegal. Why? For sustainability. Athletes eat like 4x as much as a normal person. That's a lot of fucking food. And what for? So they can run or throw a ball? Who the fuck cares the planet is dying
4 replies taking this obvious joke at least semi seriously lol i love this website
I think the chartered flights and massive construction projects are probably a bit worse.
You gotta remember they, they dont just run and throw balls. Sometimes they kick or hit the balls. And most importantly, they all go shower together afterwards with their beefy sweaty shiny bodies
There are also many non athletes who eat 4x the normal amount
A vegan athlete has a smaller {water, land use, carbon} footprint than a meat eater who lays around all day.
and? a vegan athlete will still use 10x the calories and nutrition of a non athlete
If I ever run into someone that's an absolutist for "let people enjoy things" thought terminating cliches, I am quite likely to point toward sports gambling the way Spongebob pointed at all the dirty diapers hidden around and outside the house.
I often say "let people criticize things" or remind them that the webcomic maker who first said "let people enjoy things" decided that comic was a mistake.
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Gambling is perhaps the most egregious example of a naked wealth transfer from the poor to the rich
I love that all of this started when a couple of techbros started illegal fantasy football betting apps, made a shitload of money by further impoverishing the impoverished, then used their ill gotten gains to buy off legislators. Now i am sure they are billionaires, instead of what they deserve which is execution
Uber basically proved you could operate any app outside the law with impunity. Shit rules.
Yeah - the article says "for the dozen states, including Texas and California, where sports gambling is still illegal, the solution is simple: change nothing," but because of these apps, it's trivially easy for Californians to gamble on sports.
