Dude straight up reached under the superstructure and pulled it up to show the ocean of resentment and righteous malice working class people have for the elites
The collective mind is willing, but the body politic is drowned by the old reactions and false consciousness
You go to r/news and nerds telling people to vote are getting laughed at and told to shut the fuck up like what should always be happening.
It's not election season, so the bots have been turned off
nerds telling people to vote
Oh people voted, just not with a ballot
i dont think even the most cynical leftist doubted that the material conditions in the US have declined enough that there is some widespread sympathy for revolution, even before the CEOvering. the problem has always been organizing that sympathy into a coherent left movement, a front on which we've made 0 progress and on which we show no signs of making progress
Death to America
I have a theory that many right-wingers have the same problems with the system as we do, but their understanding of it is just wrong.
I related more with my gun-toting, trump supporting coworker in conversations than I ever did with my libshit coworker.
He could talk about how the rich own everything, mentioned how the pandemic was the biggest transfer of wealth to the rich, etc. but then he would end up with libertarian views instead of communist ones, it's shocking.
I don't know how we'll ever shed light to them, but they hate rich people just as much as we do, unlike the liberals who idolize any rich person that does performative justice.
It is far easier to talk to ignorant conservatives because at the very least, they acknowledge something is wrong with the system.
The affluent libs are the worst, no matter how progressive they claim to be, it is almost impossible to penetrate through their defensive barrier and every legitimate argument is ultimately countered with “and so do everyone else, we’re still the least bad.”
The ones who are still salvageable are those who have personally experienced being crushed by the system before.
But then there are two types of libs: those who don’t have a connection with the working class, and those who wish they don’t have a connection with the working class. So there’s that.
I had an easier time and made more inroads with conservatives when I used to live in the US (and I’m a Chinese who is known to be a commie lol) than many of the progressive libs earning high salaries.
But at the end of the day, the propaganda is too strong but what the left really needs is an organized, sustained political movement and start winning major victories. Once you get the score rolling and people start seeing what’s possible, they will start to come over to your side, and it will bring you more supporters than trying to argue with people for years about why socialism is better lol.
But then there are two types of libs: those who don’t have a connection with the working class, and those who wish they don’t have a connection with the working class. So there’s that.
there are also a lot of libs that are just normal working class people
That’s what I said in my comment. The ideologically committed libs will be willing to throw the working class people and minorities under the bus if it suits their own interests.
The liberal perspective of everything is going fine actually for the past 4 years is so much more delusional than the people who are constantly pissed off and reaching for the wrong solutions.
The American two-party/one-party state. One half can't find the problem and the other can't find the solution. And then people wonder why neither of them can make shit better. No matter which side of the coin comes up when you flip it nothing gets better because neither is adequate to the task at hand. How much I believe that is accidental or by design depends on how cynical I'm feeling that day.
i felt the same with my right-wing populist coworker. he saw what i did, and came to the wrong conclusions.
1000% agree. as sartre famously said, "anti-semitism is the anti-capitalism of fools." as leftists we can interpret this either as 1) rightists are fools and totally unsalvageable or 2) rightists have a solid grasp of the problem and we just need to get them to understand that our proposed solutions to it are better than theirs
obviously some (or even most) rightists are too far down the rabbit hole, but there are definitely those who aren't really that committed to it and therefore can be won over. especially if we get some more hyper-competent propaganda of the deed
Death to America
Just going to put this out there, and it's possible I'm misremembering something I read or misinterpreted when I originally read it but
i dont think even the most cynical leftist doubted that the material conditions in the US have declined enough that there is some widespread sympathy for revolution
I think this is completely at odds with reality. Just on this site I'm pretty sure I've read and seen upbeared a number of times people suggest that not just Americans but all Westerners in general are so benefited by imperialism that they're all subconsciously supportive of the current order and lack essentially any capacity to support revolution.
Do you really never see that sort of sentiment expressed?
EDIT: more frequent than this is "some individual westerners might be capable of class consciousness, but the bulk of them never could be"
good point. upon reflection, i think yankkkees do benefit from US imperialism, but only for a particular definition of the word "benefit". if US imperialism disappeared overnight but the distribution of wealth within the US remained unchanged, obviously people's lives would get materially MUCH worse. however, i'm operating under the assumption that whatever revolutionary change that is capable of destroying US imperialism would also be able to change the distribution of wealth within the US. essentially the same forces that are capable of levelling out the inequalities in the bottom half of this map (sorry for reddit link) are also capable of levelling out the inequalities in the top half.
additionally i think most yankkkees' perception of how much they benefit from imperialism and the current status quo does not align with the reality. people look at things like the grocery bill going up, the rent going up, the impossibility of owning a home, the cost of health insurance (obviously), and think to themselves "wow, we're really getting fucked over, something's gotta change." they don't even perceive that without US imperialism their lives would be much, MUCH worse. out of sight, out of mind, essentially.
as a result I think the left can win over the average yankkkee to our side, but only after a lot of education.
sorry for rambling, your comment gave me lots of food for thought so ive written and rewritten my comment a bunch of times, hopefully it makes sense
Death to America
I do think that an equitable world would mean far less treats for individual Americans and some of them might be mad about that, but I don't necessarily think that it would have to mean a worse lifestyle, just a different one.
You'd save a lot of resources just getting rid of planned obsolescence and encouraging what I'm going to call "communal treats" where the cost of say, a movie theater, can be spread across a huge population in a way that you can't with like, an iPad or a huge collection of worthless vinyl statuettes, and engaging in community events is probably way better for us psychologically anyways.
Like if the average household's Funko Pop budget shrinks by 99.95% does that actually make their life worse?
I figured it was half apathy/being benefitted to some extent, half just being completely unprepared and too weak/beaten down to do anything. Shit, I'm too weak to do anything that'd actually make a difference.
Just on this site I'm pretty sure I've read and seen upbeared a number of times people suggest that not just Americans but all Westerners in general are so benefited by imperialism that they're all subconsciously supportive of the current order and lack essentially any capacity to support revolution.
Maybe but I think we're here since the Trump assassination attempt. I imagine civility crying nerds would be laughed at just as much. Democrats act like the pressure relief valve. All hate is turned into vote blue.
We're still far from a real blanket hate towards capitalists. This could well be just the target being almost a cartoon villain. Small business tyrants and landlords deserve it just as much but see how that goes once the media starts running stories about how the "far left" wants to kill the grandmother who just happens to owns 3 homes.
We need to put both the mom and dad small business tyrants in a re-education camps but good luck going from evil healthcare CEO billionaire to the reality all capitalist business are bad and evil.
IMO this is more like proving modern society will not survive climate change, both political parties and capitalist media will struggle to keep the appearance of a normal society.
However this could just be the path to neofeudalism or some shit. Pay attention to the media and police efforts. We could be heading towards a future of rich people walking around followed by PMCs in full military gear and vehicles because the state failed to enforce the current appearance of normalcy.
We could be heading towards a future of rich people walking around followed by PMCs in full military gear and vehicles because the state failed to enforce the current appearance of normalcy.
Good. I'd rather have the inherent anti-social position they occupy as overlords be naked to the rest of our eyes. The fact that they get to roam around unmolested in society because of politeness and decorum and the ignorance of their fellows is bad. They should feel exposed and they should expose their difference. Because fuck them. If you want to make a fuck ton of money being an oppressor then by all means put on the uniform. If it causes people to not interact with you. If it causes you emotional distress. If it means you can't blend into a crowd. By all means.
@Civility@hexbear.net AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEEEEEEE!!!
Get absolutely wrecked
This shit is starting to feel like a spark that's leading to revolution.
That’s what a revolutionary moment feels like. It’s just that we have no organizing power to fan the flames into anything meaningful.
The problem is still atomization. The anger is there. The hatred towatd these CEOs and politicians and the corporate media is there. But these feelings aren't organized at this time obviously into a coherent movement. And the biggest obstacle to organizing is atomization. Any plan to organize needs to begin with how to overcome that hurdle
Give it another year or so if they haven't blown us all up by then.
