Hello comrades. In the interest of upholding our code of conduct - specifically, rule 1 (providing a friendly, safe and welcoming environment for all) - we felt it appropriate to make a statement regarding the lionization of Luigi Mangione, the alleged United Healthcare CEO shooter, also known as "The Adjuster."
In the day or so since the alleged shooter's identity became known to the public, the whole world has had the chance to dig though his personal social media accounts and attempt to decipher his political ideology and motives. What we have learned may shock you. He is not one of us. He is a "typical" American with largely incoherent, and in many cases reactionary politics. For the most part, what is remarkable about the man himself is that he chose to take out his anger on a genuine enemy of the proletariat, instead of an elementary school.
This is a situation where the art must be separated from the artist. We do not condemn the attack, but as a role model, Luigi Mangione falls short. We do not expect perfection from revolutionary figures either, but we expect a modicum of revolutionary discipline. We expect them not simply to identify an unpopular element of society 
, but to clearly illuminate the causes of oppression and the means by which they are overcome. When we canonize revolutionary figures, we are holding them up as an example to be followed.
This is where things come back to rule 1. Mangione has a long social media history bearing a spectrum of reactionary viewpoints, and interacting positively with many powerful reactionary figures. While some commenters have referred to this as "nothing malicious," by lionizing this man we effectively deem this behavior acceptable, or at the very least, safe to ignore. This is the type of tailism which opens the door to making a space unsafe for marginalized people.
We're going to be more strict on moderating posts which do little more than lionize the shooter. There is plenty to be said about the unfolding events, the remarkably positive public reaction, how public reactions to "propaganda of the deed" may have changed since the historical epoch of its conception (and how the strategic hazards might not have), and many other aspects of the news without canonizing this man specifically. We can still dance on the graves of our enemies and celebrate their rediscovered fear and vulnerability without the vulgar revisionism needed to pretend this man is some sort of example of Marxist or Anarchist practice.
Fascists also hate big bankers would we praise a nazi for shooting a bank CEO?
I wouldn't, even if I'd laugh at pictures of the dead CEO as a boo from Mario.
The people who can't see why this is an issue come off as people who want this website to be just for them and not a space for all people to feel safe.
Seriously disappointed by what I'm seeing here and in a few other places on hexbear. Do I support the action? Of course. Do I see it as an opportunity to increase class conciousness? Yes. Am I going to uncritically support Luigi just because of that? No.
If all it takes is a single act and the use of some vaguely class concious language to absolve someone of thier reactionary views then why don't we just start uncritically supporting MAGA communists, Vaush, and any other public figures who hold vaguely leftist views? When I see people saying "don't criticize Luigi" I see people saying that they don't give a fuck about their comrades who are marginalized because they belong to a minority group who is affected by reactionary views.
If we are going to use this as an opportunity to build class conciousness, let us do so intelligently. I've been talking to people IRL about this and emphasizing the material conditions which brought about this act. But if someone were to point out that he believed that part of the problem that Americans are facing is woke/DEI or immigrants then I'm going to call him out on that. And if anyone here who keeps on harping about "letting perfect be the enemy of good" then just fucking stop and think for one second. You're opening the door for the right to capture the people who are awakening to their class conciousness. And hell its not as if it isn't already happening. THe populist Trump right uses woking class language all the time to justify heinous shit. And if you are willing to let Luigi's shit views slide then you may as well start supporting right wing populaists just because they are "building" class conciousness.
Also seeing people whine about how this is being moderated and it being "worse" than reddit are being incredibly daft. I still see plenty of Luigi memes that haven't been deleted by the mod team. If you think that posts and comments lionizing or otherwise uncritically supporting Luigi then you are being
brained.If all it takes is a single act and the use of some vaguely class concious language to absolve someone of thier reactionary views then why don't we just start uncritically supporting MAGA communists, Vaush, and any other public figures who hold vaguely leftist views?
Because all those other people do is post?
Edit: like, do you really not see a difference between a guy who shot a health insurance CEO and a bunch of D-tier internet personalities who use politics to support their media careers or (in the case of MAGA communists) start cults?
Edit 2: to be clear I agree with the rest of your post.
He shot one CEO. He didn't somehow take down an entire industry. We may have seen some temporary reprive for the people that have been affected by it (reversal on certain policy, less claim denials). And its too early to say what happens in the long run, but knowing how America is I'm not holding my breath for long term change.
And again, I'm not saying that there was anything wrong with what he did (and yes that act is more impactful than whatever media personalities do) but why is it that we're also supposed to ignore his reactionary views? How is it that you don't see the problem in that? I think you've lived in America long enough to know that leftist language is coopted by the right and its extremely dangerous for marginalized Americans because they'll be the ones who bear the brunt of whatever solution the right proposes to "solve" the issues of the working class.
Edit:I saw your edit just now. I know the comparison is a bit extreme, but its relevant because it straddles the same line of thought. Those internet personalities, even if all they are doing is being extremely online and not affecting anything, will still talk about material issues that people face and it resonates to an extent. Yes their followings are cultish. Yes most people IRL will not ever hear about these people. But we are currently online and the best comparison I have is an online one because we all recognize it to an extent.
I guess what I'm asking is, when we talk about him, what is the thing we emphasize? I don't think we should ignore any one thing about him- I myself made a post making fun of one of his reactionary posts. But what is most important thing in his story? He had reactionary views because he had the same confused false consciousness as most other Americans. We don't have to condone that, but I really don't think we have to take the view that it's a stain on his soul that we have to be sure condemn in every post about him.
And I find it weird that it's such a shock that he has a mixture of good and reactionary views that we even need to talk about this in the first place. It was obvious that that would be the case before we knew who he was. Most people who have rage at the system are just like him.
He shot one CEO. He didn't somehow take down an entire industry.
This is such a bizarre thing to say. How many industries have YOU taken down???
Because you have people here talking about how we should ignore his reactionary view. Straight up. I'm not saying anyone who is talking about him is in the wrong and if you have pointed out that his reactionary views are wrong, good.
But there are people saying that galvanizing him uncritically is the way the left can make gains in the propaganda battle. Its not. If you have fools going out IRL and talking to people and saying, "yeah he had shit views, so what" then you are doing more harm than good and letting the right capture the minds of people.
And no of course I haven't taken down any industries, wtf. Do I need to in order to point out that an act of adventurism shouldn't absolve someone of their shit views?
This is the one all the crackers itt need to read and internalize
Yep, as soon as he praised the feds in the manifesto I knew something was up, sure enough he's a radlib. Is it cool that an enemy of the proletariat was killed? Yea. Is the shooter a leftist? Of course not, arguably the adventurism should have tipped everyone off to that.
From the jump I was hoping in the back of my mind this guy wouldn't get caught for no other reason than he's a white, probably cishet, American man with incoherent politics, and for that reason his views outside of CEO killing were never going to be something we'd condone.
I called him our guy while he was still anonymous because he hadn't been caught yet and honestly was looking like he wasn't going to be. In that situation claiming him was the best course of action for the left, but now with his capture he's a real person and not a folk hero. And that's his fucking fault too, because he clearly decided to get caught to cash in on the fame and clout of being the CEO killer.
He did one good thing, it'll be based if it inspires others to realize we are ruled by parasites and killing them is just self defense, but he's not a communist and still likely has some despicable things to say about other marginalized groups and we can't just ignore that. This is why we say we critically support him offing the CEO and teaching the public that these parasites aren't immortal, not full support for him personally as some type of comrade.
not reading all that
are we getting luigi emojis or not, thats all i need to know
to clarify i did in fact read all that. i am a communist, there is nothing better than a wordy struggle session
tbh yankees are coping if they think the broader US left is in any position to use this as an opportunity to achieve anything. things are going to continue to get worse.
good take. luigiposting is a textbook treat and this website loves tailism apparently.
Can I get some illustrative examples of... le good! vs... le bad! please?
Where do jokes about him being It*lian fall? Comparisons to Nintendo's beloved deuteragonist Luigi Mario? Patsy-posting? How he played
?I have never used the world lionizing in my life.
haha i love to trivialise anti-woke culture war shit (i.e. virulent queerphobia, misogyny and racism) as "dumb shit"
fuck you
I'd believe the critical support line more if there if it were otherwise but there is way too much trivializing these views and the shit he follows in here.
Respectfully, this is completely reversing how we should be looking at this. Rather than seeing what good someone has done and then choosing to "claim" them. We should instead look to see what good we can do by ideologically "claiming" someone.
Nikolay Bauman slept with a comrade's wife and then bullied her to death once she became pregnant. He is the definition of a problematic figure but he was held up as a martyr by the Soviets. The reason, his death helped inspire revolutionary action and spread their ideals further.
Luigi Mangione is infinitely less problematic and can also be used for revolutionary ends. Realpolitik always trumps ideological purity. If putting him an stamp or t-shirt helps get us healthcare, I can make peace with his less based views. We do not need to support every part of him in order to support his actions on that day.
Nikolay Bauman
I've been trying to figure out that dudes name for like 3 years now. I can't believe it took a CEO getting shot for one of long-standing questions on my mind to get answered.
Boy I hope more of my questions get answered in the future.
I'll do my best to respect the direction the community opts to go and I understand the reasons and stated concern...but as someone who hasn't personally done much lionizing of Mangione after his reveal, consider this my voice of dissent.
I am also disappointed that Luigi Mangione falls well short of our ideal role model as much as anyone...but ultimately we are materialists and this reaction strikes me as rather liberal and idealist. This isn't even a case where the right thing was done for the wrong reasons. Mangione's actions and motivations as outlined in his manifesto were an action of class war. As a figure he is complicated and problematic and the way he did the math completely wrong and somehow still managed to arrive at the right conclusion is quite head scratching...but ultimately I believe the words "critical support" apply here.
No one is forbidding critical support. In fact, this thread is the critical component of critical support.
the way he did the math completely wrong and somehow still managed to arrive at the right conclusion is quite head scratching...
he came to several very wrong conclusions too. hopefully he didn't do a practice run on anyone we're trying to protect.
but ultimately I believe the words "critical support" apply here.
yeah the mod(s) and marginalized comrades who have pointed out a problem are saying too many people are forgetting the critical part.
