Not to be a downer, but him and what army? Does he have the support of other groups, does he have candidates to run in a new party? Otherwise hes just created a 17th 3rd party, no better than the Greens or the PSL or anyone else
I feel like all their recent controversies are ruining their chances for that honestly. I know so many people who have exitted the party because of it in the past two months. They really fumbled a lot recently.
PSL has not been able to keep up with DSAs growth for the past 16 years. It was super sectarian and had huge leadership problems when it started and remains with those problems today. I highly doubt it will ever hit the growth DSA has.
They have a long history at this point with protecting sexual assault (posting the most recent one, whole thing is super messy) within the group, and being extremely invasive to party members private lives in the event they do something that goes against the parties (read criticize leadership) line. They also just literally have a prominent member that does a show with an ex-CIA guy. Here's a list of stuff a member who was in PSL for years put together. I'd be very wary considering joining a group where this stuff comes up over and over again over the years. They also as I understand really keep stuff some their veteran members did in Iraq and Afghanistan hushed up. Really ruined my opinion of Mike Prysner after I found out. Financially I'm also sketched out by how much in dues they demand.
The amount of toxic drama and legit issues that come up year after year is wild.
From an ex-member on the chapo discord:
i mean their candidacy process is literally designed to alienate you from your friends and loved ones so the party replaces that in your life, they not only make you pay dues which is normal but they hand out a collection basket at every meeting like a church, the becker family controls the whole thing, they control what you can and can’t post about on social media, they view themselves as the only hope for revolutionary salvation in the US, they cover up sexual assault and honestly just exist as a fundraising machine, they attach themselves to meaningless marches and take credit for them and then try to raise money, they suck so much ass tbh
[9:33 PM]
i’m saying this as ex-PSL btw
[9:34 PM]
ben becker told me to miss my first HRT appointment so i could go to their march in washington against trump lol
Yeah now you know the problem with all the small centralized party orgs in the US (and UK, and Germany, etc, really this sort of stuff is in a bunch of rump organizations).
Yeah one of DSAs reasons for not running as a third party is because it wouldn't grow and would lose. The big debate over party in DSA right now is still whether and if so when to do a dirty break and run candidates off the democratic ticket. Personally I would not consider supporting it until the org at least doubles in size again, the electeds more than double. Either that or if the dems somehow got shit together on state legislatures and changed election laws banning socialists from running as democrats (which will likely never happen).
I'd also say Daou's point about running third party because they voted for Pelosi doesn't make any sense here. If they were third party reps but still thought the conservative who would get the house majority leadership position was worse than having Pelosi, and that they'd be punished with having no committee seats (which is one of the ways to propagandize as a house member) then they would vote for her anyway. At that point does the third party pull support from them, if so goodbye those house seats because now you have to primary the person you just ran a grassroots campaign to put in office.
i remember reading that the reason the DSA doesnt form a party is bc they do a lot of local organizing & direct action and running against the DNC in national elections would hurt their ability to do direct action. No need to destroy food bank programs so they can lose a symbolic run
could aoc run for reelection as dsa member and beat her challengers? she has to be insanely popular and well known in her district, or as an independent
the point im making here isnt about whether AOC could win her seat as DSA, its that she shouldn't. beating a DNC member for a seat as DSA hurts the DSA's ability to do direct action. They run a lot of food banks & free light car repair tents (to help prevent ppl from getting pulled over for like, having a busted tail light or a license plate that fell off) that get a lot of funding & support from local democratic politicians and if the DSA threw in behind AOC and she went and whipped the ass of a democratic federal senator the DSA-run food banks & stuff would see a decrease in the amount of funding & support they receive as a consequence of it.
This is what is meant by parallel power structures. It can't all be done by 1 super-party of leftists bc there are things you need to get done that is made harder by doing other stuff you need to get done. You need 1 party whose job is to ally with anyone they can to get resources to help normal people with direct action, and a 2nd party whose job is to go to war with the DNC & GOP and whip ass, and they can't be the same group.
TLDR; dont ever expect the DSA to do federal politics. They shouldn't
im not saying the DNC funds AOC's campaigns (p sure they dont & fund anyone who runs against her), Im talking the DNC funding DSA direct action on a local level like food banks. Like a DNC mayor giving some tax money to a food bank that the DSA started. If the DSA starts backing politicians who un-seat a DNC senator, that DNC mayor might stop funding the DSA-run food bank bc they are now The Enemy Of The Party & he doesn't want the party to cut his funding for his next campaign over funding a political opponent's tiny little local charity
right but the opportunity cost of waaaaay more money going from AOC's fundraising efforts to the DNC that she coukd instead direct into dsa is pretty clearly more than whatever crumbs the DNC throws at DSA projects, besides heightening the contradictions and weakening the dnc as an institution and going for those paper members and actual members that more fame would bring the party
why do electoralism for someone else? milk that national spotlight for all its worth and dont let the dnc take credit for actual organizing
well its not just a matter of money, its also a matter of like, the mayor letting them use land or not sending cops to beat the volunteers for feeding poor people, which no reasonable amount of money could replace
Not to be a downer, but him and what army? Does he have the support of other groups, does he have candidates to run in a new party? Otherwise hes just created a 17th 3rd party, no better than the Greens or the PSL or anyone else
Fingers crossed he backs PSL.
deleted by creator
I feel like all their recent controversies are ruining their chances for that honestly. I know so many people who have exitted the party because of it in the past two months. They really fumbled a lot recently.
PSL has not been able to keep up with DSAs growth for the past 16 years. It was super sectarian and had huge leadership problems when it started and remains with those problems today. I highly doubt it will ever hit the growth DSA has.
OOTL, what have they fucked up?
They have a long history at this point with protecting sexual assault (posting the most recent one, whole thing is super messy) within the group, and being extremely invasive to party members private lives in the event they do something that goes against the parties (read criticize leadership) line. They also just literally have a prominent member that does a show with an ex-CIA guy. Here's a list of stuff a member who was in PSL for years put together. I'd be very wary considering joining a group where this stuff comes up over and over again over the years. They also as I understand really keep stuff some their veteran members did in Iraq and Afghanistan hushed up. Really ruined my opinion of Mike Prysner after I found out. Financially I'm also sketched out by how much in dues they demand.
The amount of toxic drama and legit issues that come up year after year is wild.
From an ex-member on the chapo discord:
i mean their candidacy process is literally designed to alienate you from your friends and loved ones so the party replaces that in your life, they not only make you pay dues which is normal but they hand out a collection basket at every meeting like a church, the becker family controls the whole thing, they control what you can and can’t post about on social media, they view themselves as the only hope for revolutionary salvation in the US, they cover up sexual assault and honestly just exist as a fundraising machine, they attach themselves to meaningless marches and take credit for them and then try to raise money, they suck so much ass tbh [9:33 PM] i’m saying this as ex-PSL btw [9:34 PM] ben becker told me to miss my first HRT appointment so i could go to their march in washington against trump lol
That sounds like a fucking cult
Yeah now you know the problem with all the small centralized party orgs in the US (and UK, and Germany, etc, really this sort of stuff is in a bunch of rump organizations).
Lmfao like why are all these communist parties so shit.
The other commentor said a lot of what I'd say. Also read this if you're curious about more.
deleted by creator
Has the PCUSA done anything messed up?
deleted by creator
Inb4 essential workers party
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
La riva?
deleted by creator
Yeah one of DSAs reasons for not running as a third party is because it wouldn't grow and would lose. The big debate over party in DSA right now is still whether and if so when to do a dirty break and run candidates off the democratic ticket. Personally I would not consider supporting it until the org at least doubles in size again, the electeds more than double. Either that or if the dems somehow got shit together on state legislatures and changed election laws banning socialists from running as democrats (which will likely never happen).
I'd also say Daou's point about running third party because they voted for Pelosi doesn't make any sense here. If they were third party reps but still thought the conservative who would get the house majority leadership position was worse than having Pelosi, and that they'd be punished with having no committee seats (which is one of the ways to propagandize as a house member) then they would vote for her anyway. At that point does the third party pull support from them, if so goodbye those house seats because now you have to primary the person you just ran a grassroots campaign to put in office.
i remember reading that the reason the DSA doesnt form a party is bc they do a lot of local organizing & direct action and running against the DNC in national elections would hurt their ability to do direct action. No need to destroy food bank programs so they can lose a symbolic run
could aoc run for reelection as dsa member and beat her challengers? she has to be insanely popular and well known in her district, or as an independent
the point im making here isnt about whether AOC could win her seat as DSA, its that she shouldn't. beating a DNC member for a seat as DSA hurts the DSA's ability to do direct action. They run a lot of food banks & free light car repair tents (to help prevent ppl from getting pulled over for like, having a busted tail light or a license plate that fell off) that get a lot of funding & support from local democratic politicians and if the DSA threw in behind AOC and she went and whipped the ass of a democratic federal senator the DSA-run food banks & stuff would see a decrease in the amount of funding & support they receive as a consequence of it. This is what is meant by parallel power structures. It can't all be done by 1 super-party of leftists bc there are things you need to get done that is made harder by doing other stuff you need to get done. You need 1 party whose job is to ally with anyone they can to get resources to help normal people with direct action, and a 2nd party whose job is to go to war with the DNC & GOP and whip ass, and they can't be the same group.
TLDR; dont ever expect the DSA to do federal politics. They shouldn't
does the dnc actually fund her campaigns? surely she brings in more money for them than they do for her ? idk im genuinely asking
edit: and its not like the DSA is a revolutionary party ?? whats the demsoc end game?
im not saying the DNC funds AOC's campaigns (p sure they dont & fund anyone who runs against her), Im talking the DNC funding DSA direct action on a local level like food banks. Like a DNC mayor giving some tax money to a food bank that the DSA started. If the DSA starts backing politicians who un-seat a DNC senator, that DNC mayor might stop funding the DSA-run food bank bc they are now The Enemy Of The Party & he doesn't want the party to cut his funding for his next campaign over funding a political opponent's tiny little local charity
right but the opportunity cost of waaaaay more money going from AOC's fundraising efforts to the DNC that she coukd instead direct into dsa is pretty clearly more than whatever crumbs the DNC throws at DSA projects, besides heightening the contradictions and weakening the dnc as an institution and going for those paper members and actual members that more fame would bring the party
why do electoralism for someone else? milk that national spotlight for all its worth and dont let the dnc take credit for actual organizing
AOC will not generate for the DSA more money than its alliance with the local DNC governments lol
i literally have no idea what either of those numbers are tbh im genuinely asking,
well its not just a matter of money, its also a matter of like, the mayor letting them use land or not sending cops to beat the volunteers for feeding poor people, which no reasonable amount of money could replace
Yep, that's another reason.