Yeah one of DSAs reasons for not running as a third party is because it wouldn't grow and would lose. The big debate over party in DSA right now is still whether and if so when to do a dirty break and run candidates off the democratic ticket. Personally I would not consider supporting it until the org at least doubles in size again, the electeds more than double. Either that or if the dems somehow got shit together on state legislatures and changed election laws banning socialists from running as democrats (which will likely never happen).
I'd also say Daou's point about running third party because they voted for Pelosi doesn't make any sense here. If they were third party reps but still thought the conservative who would get the house majority leadership position was worse than having Pelosi, and that they'd be punished with having no committee seats (which is one of the ways to propagandize as a house member) then they would vote for her anyway. At that point does the third party pull support from them, if so goodbye those house seats because now you have to primary the person you just ran a grassroots campaign to put in office.
i remember reading that the reason the DSA doesnt form a party is bc they do a lot of local organizing & direct action and running against the DNC in national elections would hurt their ability to do direct action. No need to destroy food bank programs so they can lose a symbolic run
could aoc run for reelection as dsa member and beat her challengers? she has to be insanely popular and well known in her district, or as an independent
the point im making here isnt about whether AOC could win her seat as DSA, its that she shouldn't. beating a DNC member for a seat as DSA hurts the DSA's ability to do direct action. They run a lot of food banks & free light car repair tents (to help prevent ppl from getting pulled over for like, having a busted tail light or a license plate that fell off) that get a lot of funding & support from local democratic politicians and if the DSA threw in behind AOC and she went and whipped the ass of a democratic federal senator the DSA-run food banks & stuff would see a decrease in the amount of funding & support they receive as a consequence of it.
This is what is meant by parallel power structures. It can't all be done by 1 super-party of leftists bc there are things you need to get done that is made harder by doing other stuff you need to get done. You need 1 party whose job is to ally with anyone they can to get resources to help normal people with direct action, and a 2nd party whose job is to go to war with the DNC & GOP and whip ass, and they can't be the same group.
TLDR; dont ever expect the DSA to do federal politics. They shouldn't
im not saying the DNC funds AOC's campaigns (p sure they dont & fund anyone who runs against her), Im talking the DNC funding DSA direct action on a local level like food banks. Like a DNC mayor giving some tax money to a food bank that the DSA started. If the DSA starts backing politicians who un-seat a DNC senator, that DNC mayor might stop funding the DSA-run food bank bc they are now The Enemy Of The Party & he doesn't want the party to cut his funding for his next campaign over funding a political opponent's tiny little local charity
right but the opportunity cost of waaaaay more money going from AOC's fundraising efforts to the DNC that she coukd instead direct into dsa is pretty clearly more than whatever crumbs the DNC throws at DSA projects, besides heightening the contradictions and weakening the dnc as an institution and going for those paper members and actual members that more fame would bring the party
why do electoralism for someone else? milk that national spotlight for all its worth and dont let the dnc take credit for actual organizing
well its not just a matter of money, its also a matter of like, the mayor letting them use land or not sending cops to beat the volunteers for feeding poor people, which no reasonable amount of money could replace
Yeah one of DSAs reasons for not running as a third party is because it wouldn't grow and would lose. The big debate over party in DSA right now is still whether and if so when to do a dirty break and run candidates off the democratic ticket. Personally I would not consider supporting it until the org at least doubles in size again, the electeds more than double. Either that or if the dems somehow got shit together on state legislatures and changed election laws banning socialists from running as democrats (which will likely never happen).
I'd also say Daou's point about running third party because they voted for Pelosi doesn't make any sense here. If they were third party reps but still thought the conservative who would get the house majority leadership position was worse than having Pelosi, and that they'd be punished with having no committee seats (which is one of the ways to propagandize as a house member) then they would vote for her anyway. At that point does the third party pull support from them, if so goodbye those house seats because now you have to primary the person you just ran a grassroots campaign to put in office.
i remember reading that the reason the DSA doesnt form a party is bc they do a lot of local organizing & direct action and running against the DNC in national elections would hurt their ability to do direct action. No need to destroy food bank programs so they can lose a symbolic run
could aoc run for reelection as dsa member and beat her challengers? she has to be insanely popular and well known in her district, or as an independent
the point im making here isnt about whether AOC could win her seat as DSA, its that she shouldn't. beating a DNC member for a seat as DSA hurts the DSA's ability to do direct action. They run a lot of food banks & free light car repair tents (to help prevent ppl from getting pulled over for like, having a busted tail light or a license plate that fell off) that get a lot of funding & support from local democratic politicians and if the DSA threw in behind AOC and she went and whipped the ass of a democratic federal senator the DSA-run food banks & stuff would see a decrease in the amount of funding & support they receive as a consequence of it. This is what is meant by parallel power structures. It can't all be done by 1 super-party of leftists bc there are things you need to get done that is made harder by doing other stuff you need to get done. You need 1 party whose job is to ally with anyone they can to get resources to help normal people with direct action, and a 2nd party whose job is to go to war with the DNC & GOP and whip ass, and they can't be the same group.
TLDR; dont ever expect the DSA to do federal politics. They shouldn't
does the dnc actually fund her campaigns? surely she brings in more money for them than they do for her ? idk im genuinely asking
edit: and its not like the DSA is a revolutionary party ?? whats the demsoc end game?
im not saying the DNC funds AOC's campaigns (p sure they dont & fund anyone who runs against her), Im talking the DNC funding DSA direct action on a local level like food banks. Like a DNC mayor giving some tax money to a food bank that the DSA started. If the DSA starts backing politicians who un-seat a DNC senator, that DNC mayor might stop funding the DSA-run food bank bc they are now The Enemy Of The Party & he doesn't want the party to cut his funding for his next campaign over funding a political opponent's tiny little local charity
right but the opportunity cost of waaaaay more money going from AOC's fundraising efforts to the DNC that she coukd instead direct into dsa is pretty clearly more than whatever crumbs the DNC throws at DSA projects, besides heightening the contradictions and weakening the dnc as an institution and going for those paper members and actual members that more fame would bring the party
why do electoralism for someone else? milk that national spotlight for all its worth and dont let the dnc take credit for actual organizing
AOC will not generate for the DSA more money than its alliance with the local DNC governments lol
i literally have no idea what either of those numbers are tbh im genuinely asking,
well its not just a matter of money, its also a matter of like, the mayor letting them use land or not sending cops to beat the volunteers for feeding poor people, which no reasonable amount of money could replace
Yep, that's another reason.