i'm not exactly sure how friendly this community is with potentially controversial opinions on china and the ccp but i really just want to have an open honest conversation on this topic without getting called a dumb ch*nk or cia operative (which i do get a lot on twitter). also this is kinda long and rambly and maybe nobody will read it but if a single person does and is interested in talking more pls hmu.

basics: i think as far as political leanings go, i would label myself a leftist and/or socialist, depending on who i talk to. i have an academic interest in decolonization and police abolition. i'm taiwanese, which comes with a whole host of political implications on its own, but i think it's necessary to state this given the topic matter. also, i am 21 and still in university and most of the time just kinda a dumbass, so bear with me.

on topical issues: i am part of the diminishingly small community of pro-hk leftists both irl and on twitter. i've participated in climate, blm and hk protests in london (go to uni there). i am fairly certain that i can't travel to hk and china now without getting arrested because of my activities in this community and because of other taiwan related non-profits that i'm involved in. i've had the cops called on me at both blm and hk protests and it has cemented my belief that ACAB.

on hk protests: there is a wide, wide range of political opinions in the hk protest scene, and i have been personally disgusted by many hk supporters for also being trump supporters and/or capitalist shills. however, i do believe that the fundamental cause that the protesters are fighting for is just. police action in hk has also been just terrible, and when i say acab i mean All cops. lausan's publications on the matter generally align with what i personally believe in, as do many prominent pro-hk leftists on twitter.

on uyghurs: it is incredibly hard to discern fact from propaganda and fiction when it comes to this specific issue. i understand the hesitation that many of the left have when it comes to believing the scale of what's going on in the XUAR - zenz, aspi, and many american/european politicians that have spoken on it are unreliable or downright despicable and have suspicious motives. however, in the same vein, many leftist papers i've seen cite sources directly sanctioned by the ccp which i for the life of me cannot take seriously. i have talked personally to uyghur protesters (again in london) who have missing family members. i think it's important that in our discourse on the subject we don't speak over uyghurs who are living through real, everyday trauma. my personal position on the issue is that i believe what's happening in the XUAR amounts to cultural genocide, based on everything i've read (pro and against) and personal accounts obtained from people i've talked to irl. i find it incredibly difficult to navigate the political discourse surrounding this on twitter bc it often escalates to, well, finger-pointing and personal insults. it's really soul-sucking to be called a cia operative/bought by the cia when i literally fucking despise american imperialism. also i'm a broke uni student :(

on the ccp: this might be a controversial thing to say here, but the ccp is not the socialist/communist haven that i've seen many make it out to be (mostly online, admittedly). on a theoretical level it appears to me to most resemble a state capitalist system, and politically it is most definitely authoritarian. the ccp, however, does not represent all of china and chinese people, who i think are really one of the biggest victims of the regime. the smear campaign against china/chinese people that many us/european news outlets/politicians have adapted is straight up racist and sinophobic. i think at the end of the day, it is possible to criticize the ccp's actions without demonizing the entire nation.

on twitter leftism: i only started being involved and active in the leftist and hk scene on twitter around autumn last year, but it's so toxic that i am becoming pretty disheartened and disillusioned. it is an absolute shitshow, for example, to talk about trump being a racist sexist and morally abhorrent asshat in the protest scene because there's an infuriatingly high number of 'single-issue trump supporters' both in hk and taiwan. the backlash you get from criticizing the ccp or suggesting that there is something incredibly wrong going on in the XUAR on leftist twitter is actually eerily similar.

i'm not sure if i'm missing out on some stuff here but these are just the things i've been ruminating over since end of last year. i only recently discovered chapochat off the r/wsb fiasco, and found this page, so i just wanted to engage hopefully with reasonable leftists who can talk respectfully and critically on these subjects.

hope y'all have a good day :)

**edit: hello friends thank you all for your replies, some of which have been so detailed and insightful! i would like to continue the conversations with everybody but it's giving me a bit of anxiety looking at so many responses, so i may take some time off of the thread. however, i have read through every single response here and it has given me a lot to think about! thank you for your contributions! i'm also not quite sure how this platform works or if there's a DM function, but if there is and any of you would like to chat with me personally on this topic feel free to hmu.

hope y'all have a good day, stay safe and keep cozy!

  • Straight_Depth [they/them]
    ·
    4 years ago

    I want to ask in earnest regarding all your concerns, and I want you answer me as honestly as possible: what can you as a civilian activist in a country that is not China do about anything that is happening in China?

    • anacoluthon [she/her,they/them]
      ·
      4 years ago

      i don't believe an individual activist has the power to do much about what's happening anywhere, but we have a community spearheaded by actors who have real political power to effect change bit by bit. keeping the protests relevant online is i think base level involvement. on a personal level, being as i am taiwanese, i put my efforts into doing what i can: spreading awareness about global and domestic issues within taiwan, and donating to organizations i think are working to a valid cause when i can. i'm part of/founded student run non-profits based on these principles.

      • Straight_Depth [they/them]
        ·
        4 years ago

        Thank you for your honest reply. When I say "you" I of course don't mean you as an individual, so much as the collective of activists who take an agressive anti-CPC stance. I appreciate that as you are Taiwanese, you perhaps have a more personal stake in the issue than some Western-born activist who has been informed solely by mainstream western media.

        For Western leftists and activists who take this stance, however, I cannot possibly understand:

        • A) who or what they can influence into doing anything about it; China isn't going to listen, and even if they can influence their own government, simple denoucement does nothing and China will carry on regardless with its own national projects. Any political action done against China in retaliation for its own internal affairs generally results in mutually destructive trade wars, sanctions, diplomatic breakdowns, and military escalation. China has rarely ever backed down from its stances and it's more than happy to play the very long game.

        and

        • B ) Why they would waste their activist energy focusing on the actions of China, when they are far more likely to clean up house in what their own governments are doing in their own borders and the massacres and horrific human rights crimes their close, personal, freedom-loving allies like Israel, Saudia Arabia (and assorted other Gulf oil States), Indonesia, Brasil, et al are committing in regards to Palestinians, Yemenis, and their indigenous populations, using western sold hardware and direct participation. They claim "we can do both!" No, you literally can't. Every second you spend writing a screed or attending a protest condemning China, you give western imperialists and their allies a free pass on their own crimes which you can actually influence. You take a bullet for your own imperialists while denouncing the actions of another nation.

        I appreciate that as a Taiwanese your own relationships regarding China are complex and very dependent on both the PRC and the western imperialists, and that you have a mutually strained diplomatic relation with the PRC going back decades. May I ask, what is your stance on the territorial claims of the RoC and the KMT constitution in relation to the PRC's own claims and current holdings which have been stable for decades? Do you believe that the RoC should control Xinjiang, Tibet, all of Mongolia, Hong Kong, and the entire South China Sea (which coincidentally the western imperialists roundly condemn the PRC for)?

        • anacoluthon [she/her,they/them]
          ·
          4 years ago

          thank you for your very thorough and thoughtful reply!

          Every second you spend writing a screed or attend a protest condemning China, you give western imperialists and their allies a free pass on their own crimes which you can actually influence. You take a bullet for your own imperialists while denouncing the actions of another nation.

          i understand this of course, and being american and british educated i do care a lot about what's going on the us and the uk, but at this point in time i'm choosing my battles, and of course respect leftists who choose theirs. the toxic community i refer to on twitter is more specifically a reactionary group of leftists who for the most aren't chinese/hkers/taiwanese/from any other country or social group related to the chinese diaspora, who use their platform to amplify the chinese government's voice and positions.

          May I ask, what is your stance on the territorial claims of the RoC and the KMT constitution in relation to the PRC’s own claims and current holdings which have been stable for decades? Do you believe that the RoC should control Xinjiang, Tibet, all of Mongolia, Hong Kong, and theentire South China Sea (which coincidentally the western imperialists roundly condemn the PRC for)?

          i view the roc as a settler colonial state on the island of taiwan, though this is a more radical position i think than the average liberal/left-leaning taiwanese. i think the roc should be abolished, but as of now that's probably not happening any time soon. i think the claims are antiquated and imperialist, and the only reason that the roc government officially maintains it is probably more due to the 1992 consensus than anything else.

          • Straight_Depth [they/them]
            ·
            4 years ago

            Thank you as well for your reply. I am also choosing my battle, and as it stands, any hostile action taken against China by my imperialst-capitalist home country is, for all intents and purposes, an act of escalation to war, and any mediatic coverage of China's crimes (real or imagined) is steeped in sinophobia and panic about no longer being the number one player on the global economic and military stage.

            I want to be abundantly clear that I do not, under any circumstances, want to be part of a direct nor indirect war with China established in the basis of its human rights abuses, the latter which could quite conceivably be resolved by taking a less hostile stance, paradoxically. But thus far, all this mediatic siege is merely step-by-step buildup into creating a popular consensus for war, exactly as had been done in the past regarding Vietnam, Iraq, etc. I am no longer playing this game. While Uighurs may be in less-than-ideal conditions, millions of actual Yemenis are being slaughtered byt bombs, starvation, and denial of medicine, all on my coin, and with the total tacit approval of my home country, with such a disciplined media silence on the issue that it would make the usual capitalist projections of 1984 blush. My government can end this slaughter tomorrow if it wanted to. My government can help those Yemenis right now. Saudi Arabia is far more deserving of "liberation" and "democratization" than China would ever be. Yet we treat them like we would treat any western ally, despite being an absolute monarchy with atrocious human rights abuses and zero freedom of expression. My battle is against a far greater evil that my own nation has sutained and nurtured for decades. I simply cannot ignore this to focus on China.