Its like Hillary walking into a working class kitchen for the first time.

They've been shielded from even critical support of China and other AES for so long they literally, not figuratively, literally cannot process that people exist that have beliefs that aren't Reddit Approved. They immediately assume it's bots or wumao. Human beings can't possibly hold these beliefs, so they must be Oriental hordes or actual robots.

  • GnastyGnuts [he/him]
    ·
    edit-2
    11 months ago

    Ofc indoctrinated citizens think they're a democracy, they also probably have different understanding of democracy

    How do you justify dismissing it as indoctrination? And if the majority think of it as a democracy, under what definition or understanding of democracy is the perspective of the majority not of prime importance?

    America isn't a democracy either but people are brainwashed into believing it is. Most of the Americans that choose "not a democracy" in that poll are Republicans that'll say "democracy is mob-rule, we're a Republic!"

    The first part of this I agree with (other than the notion of brainwashing), but I don't understand where you're getting the second part. According to that poll I linked about perceptions of democracy, 73% of US citizens value democracy, which doesn't fit with 51% thinking it's not a democracy, but liking it that way because they think democracy is mob rule.

    Does this look democratic to you?

    I don't consider the contentiousness of elections to be of primary importance when evaluating if a government is democratic, but given the measurable advancements that have occurred in China under Xi's leadership, I can buy that he would have such immense support, particularly if there isn't an equally appealing alternative with such a proven track record.

    • CatholicSocialist@lemmy.ml
      ·
      11 months ago

      And if the majority think of it as a democracy, under what definition or understanding of democracy is the perspective of the majority not of prime importance?

      So, all the neoliberal western countries that largely believe their democracies are also democracies?

      The first part of this I agree with, but I don’t understand where you’re getting the second part. According to that poll I linked about perceptions of democracy, 73% of US citizens value democracy, which doesn’t fit with 51% thinking it’s not a democracy, but liking it that way because they think democracy is mob rule.

      So, 27% of US citizens don't value democracy? That's half of the 51% that say it's not a democracy. Which means if it wasn't for the 27% largely Republicans that think democracy is mob-rule, around 75% would say America is a democracy. A lot of Americans simply think it's a "constitutional Republic."

      • GnastyGnuts [he/him]
        ·
        11 months ago

        So, all the neoliberal western countries that largely believe their democracies are also democracies?

        I honestly don't care if western neoliberal countries see themselves as democracies or not, or if they are democracies or not, since that's not really my grievance with them anyway. However, in China the idea of democracy that is promoted by the Xi himself is one of majority rule, the same way nearly everybody uses the term. That's the standard that Chinese people are going to be inclined to measure their government against, especially since their government has actively invited them to think of democracy in those terms.

        Quoting Xi: "Whether a country is a democracy or not depends on whether its people are really the masters of the country. Democracy is not an ornament to be used for decoration; it is to be used to solve the problems the people want to solve." (from a central conference speech he made in 2021, you can probably find the whole thing if you look)

        That doesn't sound far off from "western" notions of democracy, does it? That's the idea of democracy that they're being "indoctrinated" with over there, and what the vast majority of Chinese citizens believe their government lives up to.