Its like Hillary walking into a working class kitchen for the first time.
They've been shielded from even critical support of China and other AES for so long they literally, not figuratively, literally cannot process that people exist that have beliefs that aren't Reddit Approved. They immediately assume it's bots or wumao. Human beings can't possibly hold these beliefs, so they must be Oriental hordes or actual robots.
🔺 This place is a RussianChinese bot farm disinformation campaign 69k filled with CCP shills and Russian trolls. 🔻 I doubt there are any real human posters here. Edit1: Wow, so many updoots! Edit2: Thanks for the gold, kind stranger!It looks like that nuclear waste sign. The "This place is not a place of honor" thing.
I doubt there are any real human posters here.
redditors are indistinguishable from any AI algorithm response
I doubt there are any real human posters here.
Well, we're certainly different from the humans you seem to be used to, my lib dude.
I was honestly not excited about federation and still think we will be de-federated within hours (is that possible?) because liberals cannot stand being so consistently embarrassed by Marxists BUT I will say that a major factor in my radicalization was finding r/chapotraphouse years ago back on reddit. For every lib we dunk on, others will start to wonder and ask questions and even laugh along with communist jokes (by far the funniest on the internet). Liberalism actually has an extremely limited appeal, the democrats excite almost no one, and it’s true that some of their more lukewarm supporters just don’t know that you can fight liberalism without being a fucking nazi.
I would disagree that liberalism has "extremely limited" appeal. Many people are perfectly happy with the mediocrity offered by liberalism, and that's one of the major challenges, that so many people prefer it over radical change of any kind.
I mean it's boosted by the fact that it's the dominant ideology and permeates everything. for most people, it's existed without question their entire lives. so I'm not sure how happy people will be with it when they're offered a real alternative, even among people who objectively benefit from it.
Yeah the benefit of being the default is huge. Incumbency bias is strong, and liberalism doesn't bad enough at first to most people, so they assume its fine. You either have to be curious about the truth, or get fucked over by the system to really start to question it. It exists in a state of not so bad that people hate it, but clearly not the best, so people just go along with it as it is easiest to do so.
yep, as long as it's the ideology in schools and media, it's going to retain that position. the cracks are beginning to show, however. I think neoliberalism is really only the ideology of a few people (who admittedly have significant power) and we're living through a rebirth of liberalism into a backwards looking ideology that craves its former power and glory. this new ideology is typified by blue MAGA -- a reactionary sentiment echoed back when Trump was in office "everything would be fine if only Obama were president". different groups pick different dates for when they want to turn the clock back to, but it's overall a reactionary ideology.
It just needs to fuck you good once and there's no going back. I had to take my dad in for over 2 years while he slowly died and I had zero help. He had no other family and couldnt afford elder care so and I was stuck changing his piss bags, giving him enemas, feeding him baby food and the only thing anyone offered me was pity.
Fuck this system. Fuck anyone who defends it.
I personally take it less as people finding liberalism appealing, and more that real change is scary and entails the possibility of suffering and death.
Bingo! There's been police homicide and torture cases after 2020 and I don't totally buy the Ray Epps narrative from the press. I sometimes wonder if the capitol riot was a way to try to keep the largescale 2020 protests from happening as the cops still commit murder. Make no mistake, the unrest following Floyd was bigger than the unrest following MLK. It went global.
Edited
I suppose, but I was increasingly frustrated by the way democrats endlessly kowtowed to republicans and how they got nothing, absolutely nothing in return for it. I thought it was just an issue with “corporate democrats” at first, until I witnessed Bernie and AOC’s total capitulation in 2020 and began to understand that this country’s problems go way deeper than fucking campaign contributions. R/chapotraphouse really helped provide answers for my questions, namely reading Marxist theory and history (and responding to fascists and liberals with pigpoopballs).
For me, it was when Bernie campaigned harder for Hillary than she had campaigned for Obama, and then also how "Bernie Bros" were blamed for her ensuing loss to a human cheeto.
I think the only people to whom liberalism really appeals to are those who are entirely disengaged. I think anybody who becomes active immediately begins to discover liberalism's inherent contradictions, and finds themselves faced with the reality of either becoming some variety of fascist or socialist, depending on what their true values are.
I would disagree that liberalism only appeals to people who are entirely disengaged.
There are so many passionate and obsessed liberals. People who do canvassing, go to peaceful protests (while criticizing protests that are too disruptive), DVR MSNBC shows, listen to Pod Save guys, etc.
Have you noticed these types are usually either children who haven't yet experienced life or retirees whose working life might as well have been in a different universe? Or they are just rich?
Those canvassing/protesting positions are fairly good opportunities for those seeking to push obsessed liberals toward the left libertarian end of things. A few poignant questions and a “based on that, you might be an anarchist” can be powerful.
That’s how I was prompted to dig deeper, and end up with a more “radical” descriptor. One conversation while canvassing to open the door. Prior I would have described myself as liberal because I didn’t know a while lot about other options, but my actual views didn’t change much at all.
Oh yeah.... I once had an argument with a Bernie supporter who wanted a Domestic Terrorist Alert List. The argument got heated and I wasn't really for gun control if the police are still armed.
She called the cops to my fucking apartment.
there's a kind of desperation in the way a lot of libs cling to their ideology though, a sense that it must hold or unknown terrors will consume them. I don't think it's particularly stable, especially if a real worker's party were to offer a clear alternative.
a sense that it must hold or unknown terrors will consume them.
"Better the devil you know than the devil you don't"
I literally found CTH because I saw liberals on r/latestagecapitalism talking about "the scary dirtbag chapos" who "tell right-wingers to post hog" and was thought to myself "Wait no these people sound awesome, actually. I am so sick of people trying to play nice with actual Nazis" and decided to see what you guys were actually like and it turns out you aren't scary at all. Lol.
I also found LSC first, then after someone mentioned CTH I started lurking there, because it was just better. After CTH was banned, LSC went full
with Bill Gates praising and shit, and it was just depressing to read at that point.
Put it this way, CTH was tiny compared to the size of reddit yet it had such an impact on the site that Reddit's admins wanted it gone to stop the left pressure it created.
Hexbear is significantly larger comparatively when compared with the size of Lemmy. The influence we have on Lemmy is larger than it was on reddit. Currently at least, assuming Lemmy continues to grow that might not be true in future, but for now it absolutely is. Particularly because we're only on a few instances.
Because CTH established one of the essential steps towards a revolutionary movement: “an alternative cultural pole”. So it was dangerous and had to be destroyed.
Is "an alternative cultural pole" a phrase from some theoretical work? Asking because it sounds interesting, and I came up short on DuckDuckGo.
I made it up lol, but its from gramsci, I think he used countercultural hegemon or something.
Good bot. Start any time, the people of the west yearn for freedom.
Say what you will about those Chinese bots, I've never heard one advocate for a nuclear holocaust.
Chinese bot: "I'm just wandering around China eating good food and enjoying scenery. Look at this cool train and neat skyscrapers. Panda!"
Western liberal: "BLOOD! BLOOD! BLOOD! THE LINE CAN ONLY BE APPEASED BY THE SACRIFICE OF THE VITAL ESSENSE OF THE POOR ON THE ALTAR OF CIVILITY!"
I wish I could wander around China eating good food and looking at cool trains
uncritical support to comrade @GarbageShoot@hexbear.net's efforts to kindly engage with the libs in the anti China thread that's active right now. I appreciate that someone is in there not just sending ppb but I'm not gonna do it lol
I actually don't think I've seen anything like this on this site before:
Show
Apparently right after the Bosheviks seized the palace they raided the alcohol stores and had a giant party/orgy for a full week
I'm really no affectionato and have little formal training when it comes to high art, but this. This speaks to my soul.
I never had a reddit account but before I came here I had definitely bought into some of the same shit regarding China, it took a few months of lurking for me to figure this place out and for me to reconsider some if the things I had gotten wrong
That wasn't as long ago as I may want to think it was even though it's been years, combating liberalism begins within oneself and it is a constant struggle
I genuinely hope some of them take the time to read and think for themselves and actually ask questions in good faith instead of just regurgitating propaganda from the mainstream media
Some will never have an open mind and I won't waste my time on them or their bullshit
I think the only evidence one really needs is 1) US is a giant shithole with cruel laws and policies. 2) US has a long history of couping countries especially socialist ones. 3) China is US #1 geopolitical enemy.
Even if half of what the US says is true about China it doesnt change that US is trying to manipulate your opinions and gloss over its own many shortcomings
US is a giant shithole with cruel laws and policies
It’s nice, maybe even incredible beyond a certain income level. Those below that level get glimpses of that reality when they drive past the nicer parts of town or see people with nice cars/houses/boats etc. Couple that experience with brainwashing that anyone can get there with sufficient hard work, and that this supposed mobility is the foundation of Freedom™ goshdarnit, then it is simple for many people to accept mediocre or bad living conditions. It is what makes capitalist exploitation so sinister: it converts direct, personal exploitation of past societies into indirect, impersonal exploitation based on the abstract logic of private property. (Das Kapital in a nutshell.)
All of that is to say, I think your point #1 is insufficient without a Marxist analysis, because merely identifying problems without understanding their causes can easily lead a liberal to fascist scapegoating of marginalized groups instead of actual solutions.
That wasn't as long ago as I may want to think it was even though it's been years, combating liberalism begins within oneself and it is a constant struggle
Not me. I'm built different. I definitely came out of the test tube a full fledged ushanka wearing communist and didn't totally buy in to Obama's bullshit the first time around
Everybody posting from a Hexbear account can instantly be disregarded as a Russian bot. They need to read more Wikipedia pages about China and North Korea instead of fairy tales about make believe economics
go gett'em
for such an effective bait thread lmao
EVERYONE BUT ME IS A CCPP BOT 