Thanks, and thanks for letting me know. I'll have to let that person know that, as much as I normally take their word on stuff because they have a lot of common sense and keep up on reputable news sources, this particular "fact" was a blatant lie and whatever news source they got it from needs to be vetted more thoroughly.
Honestly it's cool. Personally I try to be very objective, scientific, and factual about stuff, but I've 100% been wrong about things in the past. I think the measure of a person is their ability to admit a mistake in the face of irrefutable evidence against their POV.
That is still a possibility but given the conditions of some of the illegal wet markets in China, it is significantly more likely to have stemmed from one of those. I was reading the book Spillover, which was written before COVID, and they went to some wet markets around where SARS originated and while there were more regulations around wet markets, they were largely ignored. The author basically concluded that it was still a ripe environment for another SARS outbreak.
Personally, I'd like to see "Canada's Guantanamo" shut down. Let me put it this way, in Guantanamo a bunch of adults were force-fed protein shakes to break a hunger strike, which is pretty twisted BUT... The place I'm angry about starved families with young kids until the kids ate dirt just to sate their hunger pains, and it's MY fucking country doing it? NO. STOP IT. They're innocent kids and even supposed to be Canadian citizens, you arrogant french-speaking oil fund baby bastard, GET THEM AND THEIR PARENTS HOME NOW TRUDEAU.
Sorry, just pointing out a place I don't approve of that I can actually back up with evidence and to be clear my previous statement isn't an anti-China view so much as an anti-corruption view that happened to be based on flawed info. I'm sure the CCP has done some nasty things but I have no evidence of anything specific, and what country at this point HASN'T turned out to have done hypocritical things to people who did nothing wrong?
Hopefully that can be changed by the nature of federated social media, I kind of feel like there was an atmosphere of persecution of outsiders on Reddit that I haven't encountered here; When I say something, I know if I've screwed up because a reply will point it out. On reddit, the downvoting affected things but no one ever said why. Plus I can look at a person's post history and figure out if they hate me for my opinion and are just causing trouble, or if they simply disagree and I should consider them a valid critic.
I'm not going to deny that either, but considering it happened in the 60s and 70s at latest that's like being mad at Biden about the War on Drugs, or even being mad at the British Prime Minister for children who died working in coal mines during the Industrial Revolution... Some of these mass graves may or may not be from as far back as the 19th century, IIRC. Still absolutely horrible, if I found about that when it happened (and if I had been born by that point) I would either be even more mentally damaged by it than I am in the real timeline and spend my life hiding in the woods out of fear of people, or in prison for trying to kill the entire staff of a residential school like some sort of child-avenging serial killer.
I get that prevention of any crime via privacy invasion is precrime, so at least put to death any adult who is charged with killing a child (with a slow painful death for the real culprit if the first guy who was executed was actually innocent; I am not a fan of the idea that wrongful death by the legal system is somehow okay, but honestly it's never going to be a perfect system) once their guilt is confirmed. No, it's not ideal, but the alternative is an angry mob demanding the accusedwitch pedophile (key word accused, as in, not confirmed) be burned at the stake. You want to protect your kids AND avoid totalitarian oppression? Well, that's the only way I can imagine it happening, please prove me wrong but this culture of "people who hurt kids with sex are evil but hurting kids in any other way is okay because..." needs to stop. Hurting kids in ANY form because you know their word means less than yours and thus you'll get away with it is sickening, especially if you're accusing someone else of being a threat.
Believe me, violence against kids and even unfair restrictions (there's a difference between "no TV because you imitate stupid crap" and "only 15 minutes of TV a day even though cartoon episodes are 30 minutes including commercials because I'm clueless and want to force my opinions on you") are no less scarring to a kid while growing up than sexual assault. I would know because I lived in a foster home for two years because I was literally taken from my family by the "Ministry of Children and Families" along with dozens of other kids with disabilities as a plot to "save money" (for Gordon Campbell's pockets) by centralizing mental health care for children. It's high time the hypocrisy about children's safety be taken seriously in instances where it can be: When a child is in serious danger and keeping them unharmed is such a simple decision as "bring them home from that awful place" or "don't kill them yourself just because of what culture they're from" and the decision is "hurt the child", I don't care whether it was for sex, money or hatred, they're ALL equally monstrous to make that decision.
The "against removing downvotes" was a typo I assume? It doesn't read logically. Also, really hoping that face doesn't mean you're trolling me. I get that I talk a lot so I'll shut up now, just don't rub it in if you think I'm too wordy.
that's like being mad at Biden about the War on Drugs
I mean... He did author the crime bill. Dude hung out with white supremacists and was against bussing. Considering the fact that the schools were active all the way up to 1997, that's probably a better simile than you think.
You kinda lost me at the rest, I thought we were just mentioning atrocities. Your point is that we should punish people that hurt kids? Or are you trying to justify the existence of schools that tore away children from their parents due to racist assumptions about "christianizing" children?
Nah it wasn't a typo. Hexbear had a discussion about removing downvotes, I was against removing downvotes, but they were removed anyway. I mentioned that because you spoke on site culture.
97? Shit, I wasn't aware. If I knew at that time I'd be just a kid terrified they'd kill me too. I think I just found something that I could look into for the sake of helping to make sure this shit never happens again.
I don't know why but, sketchy past or not, this President was elected based purely on "anyone but Trump" and managed to do far more than that bare minimum regardless; it says a lot to me that effort was made to improve things under the current American government when they could probably gotten away with anything and no choices would be left that weren't "your future will be Corporate Feudalism" in the next election.
My point is that we should punish people after the fact like with every crime, but that yes, those schools are terrible and anyone associated with killing those kids needs to be found and punished for it.
As for down votes, I don't know why you chose hexbear as your instance but I won't judge based purely on something that's either trivial or personal depending on the person. Interesting that admins can remove a feature like that.
I gotta say I don't really see how Biden has made things better. Climate change is still not being taken seriously, were embroiled in yet another war, the military budget has been increased yet again, more people died of covid under Biden, abortion isn't a right anymore, LGBTQ are more threatened, the police has gotten more funding, Europe is entering a recession due to following America's demands of cutting off Russian fuel, the US is pretty likely to enter a recession as well.
If you're interested in these left-wing critiques I'd recommend watching "some more news".
I chose hexbear because it was created by old r/chapotraphouse users in anticipation of the sub getting banned - incidentally for "calls for violence" though the only example Reddit could make was us calling for "death to slavers".
I've stayed here because of its pro LGBTQ-stance and its great and knowledgeful userbase wrt discussions of news and world events. It's the only place where I don't see people take news at face value, but instead investigate the truth of claims - no matter where the claims come from. It's the only place where I've seen such skepticism be hailed rather critiqued
Maybe its just watching from afar and only having paid attention to politics from 9/11 onwards but it feels like an infrastructure bill is more important than people give credit for. The train crashes and the rail union strike did actually lead somewhere; despite breaking the strike, apparently Biden helped get the benefits the rail union workers wanted for them even after the actual strike was off.
Aside from that, I'm not sure how even Obama would have handled a pandemic and a war with Russia. I do know that, sad as it may be, there really was no choice. Trump would literally have gone nuclear and/or instituted martial law if he could have and saw an opportunity (like a completely unchecked pandemic leading to widespread death), because it would ensure he remains in power indefinitely, there's no doubt we wouldn't even be allowed to discuss this in 2023 if Trump had been reelected.
As for LGBTQ+, that was a supreme court decision in my eyes and so the blame falls on Trump for that because he hand-picked them for exactly the reason that it acted as "insurance".
Anyway, sorry to bother you. I get politics is a touchy subject and I'm not sure what else I can say that's not tinted through maple-tinted lenses.
Biden helped get the benefits the rail union workers wanted for them even after the actual strike was off.
I haven't seen anything about this, could you point me towards someplace where I can learn more? Last I heard he'd crushed the strike, and people were quitting in droves.
His infrastructure bill did also give billions to both Ukraine and the MIC. There's a lot of other critiques that I can't really be bothered to get into right now, but if you're genuinely interested I'd recommend making a post on hexbear asking about it. Though a lot of the users are prickly, they do welcome and enjoy open and honest good-faith discussions, which it is my impression you are seeking.
I do know that, sad as it may be, there really was no choice.
There were many offramps to handle both the pandemic and the war in Ukraine, neither were inevitable. The alarms about covid were rung early, but ignored. I don't know if you recall but China was mocked by both European and American media for "alarmism" before the pandemic came to their nations.
Trump would literally have gone nuclear and/or instituted martial law if he could have and saw an opportunity
I'm no fan of trump, but I don't see how we're closer to a nuclear war then than now. Were actively involved in a conflict with a nuclear power that has threatened to use said nukes.
Under Trump the North and South Korea's engaged in peace talks for the first time. The us signed a deal to pull out of Afghanistan. The middle eastern countries begang to engage diplomatically with one another.
I would encourage you to engage with hexbears newscomm and the megathread on it. I would also encourage you to visit the site and continue your discussion as you do now.
Anyway, sorry to bother you. I get politics is a touchy subject.
Don't worry about it, were several comments deep on a political discussion on a political meme posted on a forum run by Marxists. I could've chosen to disengage or redirect you at any point.
It's been a joy, thank you for an open and good-faith discussion with kind language even when I was prickly.
I sincerely encourage you to visit hexbear and ask questions - either in a post or as a comment to relevant news discussions.
Edit: just saw your edit about the supreme court.
Biden could have gone past the supreme court by enshrining Roe v Wade with executive decisions. The Dems could have enshrined it years ago. Biden could've packed the courts. RBG could've stepped down under Obama, as she was asked to do. There were several offramps.
The fact that none were taken is a sign that the Dems are at best feckless and at worst republicans - either way the result of their rule is the same as a republican government
While it's not entirely ruled out, the lab leak hypothesis is looking less and less likely for a variety of reasons. The most likely suspect at this time is a raccoon dog sold at a specific wet market in Wuhan about 7 miles away from the WIV lab. This has not been proven yet either, it's just the most likely, so ultimately we still don't actually know.
There was a deep-dive article about it in the NYT Magazine recently.
It was always bogus and has always been ruled out by anyone even remotely serious. Giving into that theory just feeds racist bigotry. If you wanna get conspiracy-brained then Fort Detrick is a much better bet anyway.
That's a drastic reaction. Did I scratch you, racist?
I just looked into the claims at the time and afterwards. They were led by politicians and they were mocked and critiqued at the time.
it was always just led by us politicians wanting to blame someone other than themselves for their terrible handling of covid.
Of course you already know this, you just want an excuse to say "China bad". You could've posted some sources instead of insulting me, but then again there aren't really anyone credible to post about <3
Removed by mod
The lab leak theory never had any evidence.
Oof, my bad. Info came from someone I know, evidently I made the mistake of believing them.
Sorry to be overly harsh. I'll edit my comment.
Thanks, and thanks for letting me know. I'll have to let that person know that, as much as I normally take their word on stuff because they have a lot of common sense and keep up on reputable news sources, this particular "fact" was a blatant lie and whatever news source they got it from needs to be vetted more thoroughly.
Honestly it's cool. Personally I try to be very objective, scientific, and factual about stuff, but I've 100% been wrong about things in the past. I think the measure of a person is their ability to admit a mistake in the face of irrefutable evidence against their POV.
Also non scientific bodies have been chiming in to promote the theory. With the whole anti-China thing going on, it's gotten a lot more traction that it should have. If the superstructure wants this idea to become mainstream, it can and did.
That is still a possibility but given the conditions of some of the illegal wet markets in China, it is significantly more likely to have stemmed from one of those. I was reading the book Spillover, which was written before COVID, and they went to some wet markets around where SARS originated and while there were more regulations around wet markets, they were largely ignored. The author basically concluded that it was still a ripe environment for another SARS outbreak.
deleted by creator
Investigate fort detrick. At least there was some substance to the accusations against that place
Personally, I'd like to see "Canada's Guantanamo" shut down. Let me put it this way, in Guantanamo a bunch of adults were force-fed protein shakes to break a hunger strike, which is pretty twisted BUT... The place I'm angry about starved families with young kids until the kids ate dirt just to sate their hunger pains, and it's MY fucking country doing it? NO. STOP IT. They're innocent kids and even supposed to be Canadian citizens, you arrogant french-speaking oil fund baby bastard, GET THEM AND THEIR PARENTS HOME NOW TRUDEAU.
Sorry, just pointing out a place I don't approve of that I can actually back up with evidence and to be clear my previous statement isn't an anti-China view so much as an anti-corruption view that happened to be based on flawed info. I'm sure the CCP has done some nasty things but I have no evidence of anything specific, and what country at this point HASN'T turned out to have done hypocritical things to people who did nothing wrong?
Hopefully that can be changed by the nature of federated social media, I kind of feel like there was an atmosphere of persecution of outsiders on Reddit that I haven't encountered here; When I say something, I know if I've screwed up because a reply will point it out. On reddit, the downvoting affected things but no one ever said why. Plus I can look at a person's post history and figure out if they hate me for my opinion and are just causing trouble, or if they simply disagree and I should consider them a valid critic.
And yeah I was against removing downvotes when it happened, but it truly has only been a boon for site culture
I'm not going to deny that either, but considering it happened in the 60s and 70s at latest that's like being mad at Biden about the War on Drugs, or even being mad at the British Prime Minister for children who died working in coal mines during the Industrial Revolution... Some of these mass graves may or may not be from as far back as the 19th century, IIRC. Still absolutely horrible, if I found about that when it happened (and if I had been born by that point) I would either be even more mentally damaged by it than I am in the real timeline and spend my life hiding in the woods out of fear of people, or in prison for trying to kill the entire staff of a residential school like some sort of child-avenging serial killer.
I get that prevention of any crime via privacy invasion is precrime, so at least put to death any adult who is charged with killing a child (with a slow painful death for the real culprit if the first guy who was executed was actually innocent; I am not a fan of the idea that wrongful death by the legal system is somehow okay, but honestly it's never going to be a perfect system) once their guilt is confirmed. No, it's not ideal, but the alternative is an angry mob demanding the accused
witchpedophile (key word accused, as in, not confirmed) be burned at the stake. You want to protect your kids AND avoid totalitarian oppression? Well, that's the only way I can imagine it happening, please prove me wrong but this culture of "people who hurt kids with sex are evil but hurting kids in any other way is okay because..." needs to stop. Hurting kids in ANY form because you know their word means less than yours and thus you'll get away with it is sickening, especially if you're accusing someone else of being a threat.Believe me, violence against kids and even unfair restrictions (there's a difference between "no TV because you imitate stupid crap" and "only 15 minutes of TV a day even though cartoon episodes are 30 minutes including commercials because I'm clueless and want to force my opinions on you") are no less scarring to a kid while growing up than sexual assault. I would know because I lived in a foster home for two years because I was literally taken from my family by the "Ministry of Children and Families" along with dozens of other kids with disabilities as a plot to "save money" (for Gordon Campbell's pockets) by centralizing mental health care for children. It's high time the hypocrisy about children's safety be taken seriously in instances where it can be: When a child is in serious danger and keeping them unharmed is such a simple decision as "bring them home from that awful place" or "don't kill them yourself just because of what culture they're from" and the decision is "hurt the child", I don't care whether it was for sex, money or hatred, they're ALL equally monstrous to make that decision.
The "against removing downvotes" was a typo I assume? It doesn't read logically. Also, really hoping that face doesn't mean you're trolling me. I get that I talk a lot so I'll shut up now, just don't rub it in if you think I'm too wordy.
I mean... He did author the crime bill. Dude hung out with white supremacists and was against bussing. Considering the fact that the schools were active all the way up to 1997, that's probably a better simile than you think.
You kinda lost me at the rest, I thought we were just mentioning atrocities. Your point is that we should punish people that hurt kids? Or are you trying to justify the existence of schools that tore away children from their parents due to racist assumptions about "christianizing" children?
Nah it wasn't a typo. Hexbear had a discussion about removing downvotes, I was against removing downvotes, but they were removed anyway. I mentioned that because you spoke on site culture.
97? Shit, I wasn't aware. If I knew at that time I'd be just a kid terrified they'd kill me too. I think I just found something that I could look into for the sake of helping to make sure this shit never happens again.
I don't know why but, sketchy past or not, this President was elected based purely on "anyone but Trump" and managed to do far more than that bare minimum regardless; it says a lot to me that effort was made to improve things under the current American government when they could probably gotten away with anything and no choices would be left that weren't "your future will be Corporate Feudalism" in the next election.
My point is that we should punish people after the fact like with every crime, but that yes, those schools are terrible and anyone associated with killing those kids needs to be found and punished for it.
As for down votes, I don't know why you chose hexbear as your instance but I won't judge based purely on something that's either trivial or personal depending on the person. Interesting that admins can remove a feature like that.
I gotta say I don't really see how Biden has made things better. Climate change is still not being taken seriously, were embroiled in yet another war, the military budget has been increased yet again, more people died of covid under Biden, abortion isn't a right anymore, LGBTQ are more threatened, the police has gotten more funding, Europe is entering a recession due to following America's demands of cutting off Russian fuel, the US is pretty likely to enter a recession as well.
If you're interested in these left-wing critiques I'd recommend watching "some more news".
I chose hexbear because it was created by old r/chapotraphouse users in anticipation of the sub getting banned - incidentally for "calls for violence" though the only example Reddit could make was us calling for "death to slavers".
I've stayed here because of its pro LGBTQ-stance and its great and knowledgeful userbase wrt discussions of news and world events. It's the only place where I don't see people take news at face value, but instead investigate the truth of claims - no matter where the claims come from. It's the only place where I've seen such skepticism be hailed rather critiqued
Maybe its just watching from afar and only having paid attention to politics from 9/11 onwards but it feels like an infrastructure bill is more important than people give credit for. The train crashes and the rail union strike did actually lead somewhere; despite breaking the strike, apparently Biden helped get the benefits the rail union workers wanted for them even after the actual strike was off.
Aside from that, I'm not sure how even Obama would have handled a pandemic and a war with Russia. I do know that, sad as it may be, there really was no choice. Trump would literally have gone nuclear and/or instituted martial law if he could have and saw an opportunity (like a completely unchecked pandemic leading to widespread death), because it would ensure he remains in power indefinitely, there's no doubt we wouldn't even be allowed to discuss this in 2023 if Trump had been reelected.
As for LGBTQ+, that was a supreme court decision in my eyes and so the blame falls on Trump for that because he hand-picked them for exactly the reason that it acted as "insurance".
Anyway, sorry to bother you. I get politics is a touchy subject and I'm not sure what else I can say that's not tinted through maple-tinted lenses.
I haven't seen anything about this, could you point me towards someplace where I can learn more? Last I heard he'd crushed the strike, and people were quitting in droves.
His infrastructure bill did also give billions to both Ukraine and the MIC. There's a lot of other critiques that I can't really be bothered to get into right now, but if you're genuinely interested I'd recommend making a post on hexbear asking about it. Though a lot of the users are prickly, they do welcome and enjoy open and honest good-faith discussions, which it is my impression you are seeking.
There were many offramps to handle both the pandemic and the war in Ukraine, neither were inevitable. The alarms about covid were rung early, but ignored. I don't know if you recall but China was mocked by both European and American media for "alarmism" before the pandemic came to their nations.
I'm no fan of trump, but I don't see how we're closer to a nuclear war then than now. Were actively involved in a conflict with a nuclear power that has threatened to use said nukes.
Under Trump the North and South Korea's engaged in peace talks for the first time. The us signed a deal to pull out of Afghanistan. The middle eastern countries begang to engage diplomatically with one another.
I would encourage you to engage with hexbears newscomm and the megathread on it. I would also encourage you to visit the site and continue your discussion as you do now.
Don't worry about it, were several comments deep on a political discussion on a political meme posted on a forum run by Marxists. I could've chosen to disengage or redirect you at any point.
It's been a joy, thank you for an open and good-faith discussion with kind language even when I was prickly.
I sincerely encourage you to visit hexbear and ask questions - either in a post or as a comment to relevant news discussions.
Edit: just saw your edit about the supreme court.
Biden could have gone past the supreme court by enshrining Roe v Wade with executive decisions. The Dems could have enshrined it years ago. Biden could've packed the courts. RBG could've stepped down under Obama, as she was asked to do. There were several offramps.
The fact that none were taken is a sign that the Dems are at best feckless and at worst republicans - either way the result of their rule is the same as a republican government
big emoji
While it's not entirely ruled out, the lab leak hypothesis is looking less and less likely for a variety of reasons. The most likely suspect at this time is a raccoon dog sold at a specific wet market in Wuhan about 7 miles away from the WIV lab. This has not been proven yet either, it's just the most likely, so ultimately we still don't actually know.
There was a deep-dive article about it in the NYT Magazine recently.
It was always bogus and has always been ruled out by anyone even remotely serious. Giving into that theory just feeds racist bigotry. If you wanna get conspiracy-brained then Fort Detrick is a much better bet anyway.
You are a liar and an intellectual coward.
That's a drastic reaction. Did I scratch you, racist?
I just looked into the claims at the time and afterwards. They were led by politicians and they were mocked and critiqued at the time.
it was always just led by us politicians wanting to blame someone other than themselves for their terrible handling of covid.
Of course you already know this, you just want an excuse to say "China bad". You could've posted some sources instead of insulting me, but then again there aren't really anyone credible to post about <3
Pretty sure that Mickey Mouse and Randy Marsh caused it. Shouldn't have fucked that pangolin.