Their secret police.
Our civilian police.
Their "authoritarianism".
Our law and order.
Their concentration camps.
Our massive prison industrial complex enforcing slave labour on minorities.
Also there's no proof of a genocide going on in China. The main proponent of the accusations is the Falun Gong and Adrian Zenz - a man on a divine mission to crush communism, who has made frequent and egregious "errors" in his translation and methodology.
On the other hand countries in the EU are funding refugee "camps" like that on Moria, with conditions so horrible people are fleeing daily, and the EU is funding border patrols in Turkey that make use of excessive force. These actions would by any fair definition be genocide.
Likewise the United States is far from innocent, both at the border with Mexico where there's many reports of militias hunting refugees, and in the large prison-industrial complex which houses the largest prisoner population in the world - a population that has an outsized number of minorities. These are worked to death. By any fair definition the US is carrying out a genocide.
However it is these countries' accusations we should somehow take seriously? Why? Why should we take What France claims China is doing at face value, when France itself is embroiled in colonial wars in Africa? What reason have these countries given us? The United States especially has a proven track record of lying in order to foment ill will against a geopolitical enemy.
Not to mention communist prisons on average are far more humane and actually about rehabilitation than U.S. prisons, Xinjiang vocational re-education of potential fascists lauded by the entire Arab world being a prime example.
No one disagrees that america had committed atrocities and generally sucks with its foreign policy. Most educated people in the US are happy to admit and fight for change within the government on that. It is not denied.
Has china allowed for international investigators to investigate the situation in Xinjiang?
You'd be surprised how many Yankee "leftists" aren't aware of basic stuff like the Radio Frees, the current indigenous genocide, school to prison pipeline, or the sanctions against the "authoritarian" AES countries (causing a lot of their real issues), among many others, and are very willing to side with their own meddling against countries that are actually trying something because they might be "not true socialism." Even if all accusations against Cuba or China (I don't know that much about Vietnam or DPRK) were correct, they'd still be the lesser evil by a long shot.
There were other visits too, but NATO countries are mostly intentionally boycotting the investigation. I'm pretty sure any person who can do tourism in China can go there so long as they don't break laws. But I remember a recent article where NATO countries were advising against travelling there, for mysterious reasons.
Oh definitely. Education is important, and it is important to acknowledge the faults of your community. I make a point of being aware of the ugly parts of the past and present.
Regarding Xinjiang - Arab League nations have a huge financial interest in staying on China's good side. I worry that the billions of dollars of investment creates a conflict of interest. It makes it difficult to see them as trustworthy in this particular matter.
It also conflicts with the findings of the UN human rights office.
I recognize that this isn't the most solid evidence, but my local kabob shop owner is Uyghur from that area. They say they left before it became bad, but they have friends and family who are experiencing what the UN office is saying firsthand.
In regards to your local shop owner, you realize that Xinjiang was genuinely a dangerous place back in the day? And people leaving for their own safety doesn't automatically mean its the government's fault. There were terrorist attacks and radical extremists festering in the region until the government finally started taking steps to combat it, and its now safer than it has ever been.
Though yes, crimes against humanity is very difference to genocide, which is the reason the west has been so desperate to frame it as a genocide; because western countries commit crimes against humanity on a daily basis, to the point that their population don't even flinch at it any more. Thus, a more extreme accusation is needed.
Those were a lot of words to not say "crimes against humanity are bad."
I'm not saying I want you to admit it is happening, I guess I'm just saying it would be cool if you could see that it is a bit sus that only the countries benefitting from direct Chinese investment are saying there is nothing wrong, while other international investigations are being blocked.
If there is nothing wrong happening, and everyone is happy to be there, why can't journalists do real investigations on it and clear the air?
Those were a lot of words to not say "crimes against humanity are bad."
Oh, so we're just straight up putting words in each others' mouths then. OK
I'm not saying I want you to admit it is happening, I guess I'm just saying it would be cool if you could see that it is a bit sus that only the countries benefitting from direct Chinese investment are saying there is nothing wrong, while other international investigations are being blocked.
That's a lot of words to say "I'm a stupid moron with an ugly face and a big butt and my butt smells and I like to kiss my own butt"
Regarding Xinjiang - Arab League nations have a huge financial interest in staying on China's good side. I worry that the billions of dollars of investment creates a conflict of interest. It makes it difficult to see them as trustworthy in this particular matter.
Its interesting to me that you asked about international investigations, but when they were provided, you found a way to reject it (saying that global south countries are inherently untrustworthy because of financial incentives.)
Like, what you asked for was provided. It was just not from countries that count as "international community" to you.
The UN contradicts those findings, and if they had nothing to hide, why don't they just open it all up to journalists to do investigations and clear the air?
Their secret police.
Our civilian police.
Their "authoritarianism".
Our law and order.
Their concentration camps.
Our massive prison industrial complex enforcing slave labour on minorities.
Also there's no proof of a genocide going on in China. The main proponent of the accusations is the Falun Gong and Adrian Zenz - a man on a divine mission to crush communism, who has made frequent and egregious "errors" in his translation and methodology.
On the other hand countries in the EU are funding refugee "camps" like that on Moria, with conditions so horrible people are fleeing daily, and the EU is funding border patrols in Turkey that make use of excessive force. These actions would by any fair definition be genocide.
Likewise the United States is far from innocent, both at the border with Mexico where there's many reports of militias hunting refugees, and in the large prison-industrial complex which houses the largest prisoner population in the world - a population that has an outsized number of minorities. These are worked to death. By any fair definition the US is carrying out a genocide.
However it is these countries' accusations we should somehow take seriously? Why? Why should we take What France claims China is doing at face value, when France itself is embroiled in colonial wars in Africa? What reason have these countries given us? The United States especially has a proven track record of lying in order to foment ill will against a geopolitical enemy.
Not to mention communist prisons on average are far more humane and actually about rehabilitation than U.S. prisons, Xinjiang vocational re-education of potential fascists lauded by the entire Arab world being a prime example.
No one disagrees that america had committed atrocities and generally sucks with its foreign policy. Most educated people in the US are happy to admit and fight for change within the government on that. It is not denied.
Has china allowed for international investigators to investigate the situation in Xinjiang?
You'd be surprised how many Yankee "leftists" aren't aware of basic stuff like the Radio Frees, the current indigenous genocide, school to prison pipeline, or the sanctions against the "authoritarian" AES countries (causing a lot of their real issues), among many others, and are very willing to side with their own meddling against countries that are actually trying something because they might be "not true socialism." Even if all accusations against Cuba or China (I don't know that much about Vietnam or DPRK) were correct, they'd still be the lesser evil by a long shot.
https://www.voanews.com/a/arab-league-visits-china-s-xinjiang-region-rejects-uyghur-genocide/7131285.html
There were other visits too, but NATO countries are mostly intentionally boycotting the investigation. I'm pretty sure any person who can do tourism in China can go there so long as they don't break laws. But I remember a recent article where NATO countries were advising against travelling there, for mysterious reasons.
Oh definitely. Education is important, and it is important to acknowledge the faults of your community. I make a point of being aware of the ugly parts of the past and present.
Regarding Xinjiang - Arab League nations have a huge financial interest in staying on China's good side. I worry that the billions of dollars of investment creates a conflict of interest. It makes it difficult to see them as trustworthy in this particular matter.
It also conflicts with the findings of the UN human rights office.
I recognize that this isn't the most solid evidence, but my local kabob shop owner is Uyghur from that area. They say they left before it became bad, but they have friends and family who are experiencing what the UN office is saying firsthand.
In regards to your local shop owner, you realize that Xinjiang was genuinely a dangerous place back in the day? And people leaving for their own safety doesn't automatically mean its the government's fault. There were terrorist attacks and radical extremists festering in the region until the government finally started taking steps to combat it, and its now safer than it has ever been.
So do claims of genocide, but you'll make those anyway.
It says it "may constitute international crimes, in particular crimes against humanity."
At least it's not genocide? Lol
"May" being the operative word.
Though yes, crimes against humanity is very difference to genocide, which is the reason the west has been so desperate to frame it as a genocide; because western countries commit crimes against humanity on a daily basis, to the point that their population don't even flinch at it any more. Thus, a more extreme accusation is needed.
Those were a lot of words to not say "crimes against humanity are bad."
I'm not saying I want you to admit it is happening, I guess I'm just saying it would be cool if you could see that it is a bit sus that only the countries benefitting from direct Chinese investment are saying there is nothing wrong, while other international investigations are being blocked.
If there is nothing wrong happening, and everyone is happy to be there, why can't journalists do real investigations on it and clear the air?
Oh, so we're just straight up putting words in each others' mouths then. OK
That's a lot of words to say "I'm a stupid moron with an ugly face and a big butt and my butt smells and I like to kiss my own butt"
There we go, let it out man. Life is hard. Any other repressed emotions you want to get out?
Its interesting to me that you asked about international investigations, but when they were provided, you found a way to reject it (saying that global south countries are inherently untrustworthy because of financial incentives.)
Like, what you asked for was provided. It was just not from countries that count as "international community" to you.
The UN contradicts those findings, and if they had nothing to hide, why don't they just open it all up to journalists to do investigations and clear the air?
It really doesn't.
"If Iraq doesn't have WMDs, why doesn't he just open it all up to journalists to do investigations and clear the air?"
Really? When was the last time "most educated people" fought against the US government?
Literally yes.