This rule has held true my entire life so far, and has probably been true since the 1940s.
Although i definitely know people who are pro-Palestine and pro-Ukraine and its like uhmmmm lol
This rule has held true my entire life so far, and has probably been true since the 1940s.
Although i definitely know people who are pro-Palestine and pro-Ukraine and its like uhmmmm lol
Are they actually pro-Palestine though or does their support stop once Palestine actually does anything?
at least one i know for sure is pro-Palestine in all regards, but he also won't stop libbing out for Ukraine. All he thinks is Russia is oppressing Ukraine and completely ignores everything that led up to it. He said the war in Donbas was a Russian psyop so he ignores it that way. He's also a big fan of the UN and NATO and claims to be an anarchist of some kind. But he's anti capitalist as well. It's really made me lose a lil respect for his inconsistent views. Unfortunately like many people he refuses to budge on those opinions, despite me telling him how they are contradictory.
yea its been a disappointing topic of conversation so i just avoid it now. he stopped sending me BBC articles of "Russia is totally losing and fighting with shovels."
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in my example it's more like he wants the revolution but thinks it will immediately become a non-authoritarian utopia and we won't have to oppress anybody. He also wants to eat the rich? it truly is liberal levels of contradictions. Me and him used to just be simple Obama loving libs but he still hasn't shaken all the lib off.
Have you educated him on how counterrevolutions kill even the mildest succdem if they don't defend themselves?
that would require a person who can admit they were wrong, and this is not that person
I would venture to guess that people with these views just don't know anything about history. I'm still very limited on my knowledge, especially when it comes to Ukraine but I know enough about US Imperialism to be sus of any intervention. Like, I know very very little about the history that led up to the war in Ukraine but I never was vehemently for or opposed to defending them simply because I know better than to pick a side without being very informed about what led to it. But I can see why people would have that position, not to say I defend them having that position.
i wish it was like that. its more like they are just some strict 100% anti authoritarian, but they also want a revolution. it's like the first disagreement ive had with someone that i agree with 95% of the time. it just turns into OH YOU LIKE THE STRONGMAN DONT YOU, so as a result i just avoid my current view on Stalin aka he didnt do as many wrong as the west says he did.
That's hella crazy though!! Because the US IS THE STRONG MAN! Do they not make the connection that since Ukraine is backed so heavily by the biggest imperialist superpower that maaaaybe, they should rethink their position? That fact just refutes their position, even! It's super unfortunate that it seems most people aren't willing to connect the dots in that way. They just look at the immediate situation that is put before them and won't make the effort to look into the nuance.
In some way, I feel lucky that a lot of people I know are either undercover Marxists, or are leftists in spirit but don't feel strongly when it comes to a lot of international politics so I don't have to fight against them with this stuff. Although, I think what inspired me to read theory and move into reading Lenin and then Stalin was that one of my comrades is a Trotskyist lol so I wanna be able to dunk on them with a rich background of knowledge...Or maybe agree with them but at least do it after exhausting a bunch of literature to know that I'm informed on all positions
in his mind the strongman only exists in "authoritarian" states, which he lumps Hitler/Mussolini/Stalin/Kim Jong-Un all into one big group as far as that's concerned. He's part of that group of anarchists that thinks every revolution has just led to authoritarianism and state capitalism. Wants the revolution, but also every previous revolution is bad? im like yea ok, eat up that American propaganda.
oh and my particular example is also a Trotsky fan. so yeaaaaaaaaaa. He gifted me Fascism: What it is and how to fight it he's such a fan.
Oh man I feel like you're talking about my one friend who grew up as a British Trotskyist. We've argued in circles for hours about Ukraine (he also thinks the Donbas civil war was a Russian psyop), with me trying to fully articulate where I'm coming from with regards to the history of the region and my understanding of imperialism, only for this guy to complain that I was gish galloping and "parroting Russian propaganda." Then he came back a few days later and was like, errm, so I looked into it and yeah I guess there's right wingers in Ukraine. But still didn't admit he was wrong on that issue!
He also thinks that Lenin's letters should have made Trotsky the emperor of communism or whatever. I got him to admit that he treats his ideology as basically a religion. Ultimately I realized there's no getting through to someone who's unable or unwilling to admit when they're wrong. Gotta say I can't respect that level of arrogance.
I like him in other contexts so I just avoid any controversial topics now, which includes the entire Russian Revolution and any questions about China's socialism. The upside is now I know more about those topics from looking into things after those arguments!
Sorry for the rant, I've been holding that one in for a while.
I regret to inform you that your friend definitely watches Vaush
i wish it was that simple haha. he's one of my closest friends and i lived with him for years. the only thing he watches on youtube is reaction videos.
If he likes the UN, is he not convinced by the UN report on Donbas? Tbf there is a way of reading that report as an 'it just happened' probably 'because Russia' – an event that simply materialised out of nowhere – it doesn't get into the blame/chronology/historical context very clearly.
they were fake virtue signallers who were using palestine as a rhetorical shield to make them seem "good" and supporting "underdogs" since that's a Liberal virtue. As soon as Palestine does anything though, that fake support evaporates. A lot of it was probably libs trying to own the online tankies by saying "see Ukraine is just like Palestine!"