This rule has held true my entire life so far, and has probably been true since the 1940s.

Although i definitely know people who are pro-Palestine and pro-Ukraine and its like uhmmmm lol

  • Cummunism [they/them, he/him]
    hexagon
    ·
    edit-2
    9 months ago

    I would venture to guess that people with these views just don't know anything about history.

    i wish it was like that. its more like they are just some strict 100% anti authoritarian, but they also want a revolution. it's like the first disagreement ive had with someone that i agree with 95% of the time. it just turns into OH YOU LIKE THE STRONGMAN DONT YOU, so as a result i just avoid my current view on Stalin aka he didnt do as many wrong as the west says he did.

    • ratboy [they/them]
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      edit-2
      9 months ago

      That's hella crazy though!! Because the US IS THE STRONG MAN! Do they not make the connection that since Ukraine is backed so heavily by the biggest imperialist superpower that maaaaybe, they should rethink their position? That fact just refutes their position, even! It's super unfortunate that it seems most people aren't willing to connect the dots in that way. They just look at the immediate situation that is put before them and won't make the effort to look into the nuance.

      In some way, I feel lucky that a lot of people I know are either undercover Marxists, or are leftists in spirit but don't feel strongly when it comes to a lot of international politics so I don't have to fight against them with this stuff. Although, I think what inspired me to read theory and move into reading Lenin and then Stalin was that one of my comrades is a Trotskyist lol so I wanna be able to dunk on them with a rich background of knowledge...Or maybe agree with them but at least do it after exhausting a bunch of literature to know that I'm informed on all positions

      • Cummunism [they/them, he/him]
        hexagon
        ·
        edit-2
        9 months ago

        in his mind the strongman only exists in "authoritarian" states, which he lumps Hitler/Mussolini/Stalin/Kim Jong-Un all into one big group as far as that's concerned. He's part of that group of anarchists that thinks every revolution has just led to authoritarianism and state capitalism. Wants the revolution, but also every previous revolution is bad? im like yea ok, eat up that American propaganda.

        oh and my particular example is also a Trotsky fan. so yeaaaaaaaaaa. He gifted me Fascism: What it is and how to fight it he's such a fan.

        • panopticon [comrade/them]
          ·
          9 months ago

          Oh man I feel like you're talking about my one friend who grew up as a British Trotskyist. We've argued in circles for hours about Ukraine (he also thinks the Donbas civil war was a Russian psyop), with me trying to fully articulate where I'm coming from with regards to the history of the region and my understanding of imperialism, only for this guy to complain that I was gish galloping and "parroting Russian propaganda." Then he came back a few days later and was like, errm, so I looked into it and yeah I guess there's right wingers in Ukraine. But still didn't admit he was wrong on that issue!

          He also thinks that Lenin's letters should have made Trotsky the emperor of communism or whatever. I got him to admit that he treats his ideology as basically a religion. Ultimately I realized there's no getting through to someone who's unable or unwilling to admit when they're wrong. Gotta say I can't respect that level of arrogance.

          I like him in other contexts so I just avoid any controversial topics now, which includes the entire Russian Revolution and any questions about China's socialism. The upside is now I know more about those topics from looking into things after those arguments!

          Sorry for the rant, I've been holding that one in for a while.