I've been speaking with other more informed communists and they've told me that none actually exist. Is this true?

China, Laos, and Vietnam: now notoriously capitalists. Workers work 12+ hours with no protection in horrible factory conditions. Suicide rates are so high that suicide nets are installed. The air is so polluted millions die from lung cancer, especially factory workers w/out basic masks. Corporations dominate

North Korea: Undemocratically ruled by the Kim dynasty. Jong un indulges lavishly at the expense of his citizens, ordering millions in fine wine and trips from Denis Rodman. They might be the most socialist though, as Juche seems to otherwise be democratic.

Cuba: Sanctions have taken a massive toll, but even taking that into account the country still has its own problems. They have massive food shortages and inventory probs and aren't self sufficient after 60+ years. Why couldn't they've use machinery imported from the Soviet Union to develop their agriculture and fishery? The Soviets supported them heavily. They seem to be incredibly mismanaged or corrupt

  • SpookyGenderCommunist [they/them]
    hexbear
    23
    7 months ago

    So, I want to engage in as good of faith possible, here.

    The content of North Korean doctrine seems particularly discomforting to people here, lol. Not sure why this is the country people feel the need to stand up for.

    It's not about whether it's discomforting, it's about whether or not what you're saying is even true. I have zero reason to believe what you posted has any basis in fact. You initially copy/pasted it with no citation.

    Now, the links you're giving are decidedly not Korean. The DPRK puts out works of theory and the like, fairly readily. All I'm asking for is a primary source for this.

    But let's assume it's 100% true, for a minute.

    Even if it is, and Korean socialism does look the way that these 10 points describe, why might that be? What would drive such an insular, personality-cult driven, set of doctrine?

    Could it, perchance, be the fact that the United States set about occupying half of the Korean Peninsula? Reinstalling many of the Japanese colonial administrators the Korean people had just spent decades trying to kick out?

    Might it have something to do with the fact that the US bombed the entire peninsula so heavily, that US pilots complained that they were no more targets, and that Koreans literally began living in caves and a result?

    If you actually care about Koreans, and are unsettled by the centralization of power in the DPRK, then you ought to recognize that it's US imperial policy that has irrevocably shaped the destiny of the Korean peninsula.

    If there's any reason to "Stand up" for the DPRK, it's for the exact reasons you've laid out. If a society is too heal, and overcome the sort of backward despotism you've presented, then the answer is surely to not isolate it more. To not continue to fuel the siege mentality that drives the state ideology. But rather, to work for peace and unification, so that the whole of Korea might, once again, be able to shape its own destiny.

    • TreadOnMe [none/use name]
      hexbear
      8
      edit-2
      7 months ago

      So I read through his links. There isn't a citation to any of these interviews (a necessity for actual academic journalism) to make sure things aren't being taken out of context. The first document even says that "North Korean experts disagree with these things because they view North Korea through the lens of their propaganda." And even then there are only three uncited interviews, one which is obviously an absolutely outrageous lie that breaking the frame of a photo of Kim Jon Il while polishing it is grounds for the execution of an entire family.

      For context, the atrocities of the Pinochet regime are backed up by literally hundreds of recorded, cited interviews, some even by guards who participated in the violence admitting their culpability years later (though usually with the excuse that they weren't the ones committing the mass rape, etc.).

      This is nothing. This is unsubstantial.

    • @anarchost@lemm.ee
      hexbear
      2
      7 months ago

      "North Korea has shitty policies because it has been isolated from the rest of the world," is a statement that I agree wholeheartedly with, and yes it should be opened to things like international trade. The same holds true for Cuba, etc.

        • @anarchost@lemm.ee
          hexbear
          1
          7 months ago

          I am surprised you are allowed to believe North Korea is a shitty country with shitty policies

            • @anarchost@lemm.ee
              hexbear
              1
              7 months ago

              Are you going to disagree with the content, or are you going to continue using your Nazi logic of attacking the (alleged) source and it's purported jewishness, rather than addressing its content

              • Aryuproudomenowdaddy [comrade/them]
                hexbear
                14
                edit-2
                7 months ago

                "Citations needed."

                "Ummm akshually that's something a NAZI would do."

                "Children in North Korea eat rats and then the rats eat the children. You must engage with whatever I claim or you're a red facist. yeonmi-park

              • Catradora_Stalinism [she/her, comrade/them]
                hexbear
                11
                7 months ago

                "Disagreeing with me and actually questioning the viability of your sources makes you a nazi, I am very smart."

                Who let this child into the adult section? I gotta talk to their parents.

              • BelieveRevolt [he/him]
                hexbear
                10
                edit-2
                7 months ago

                If you don't believe in something because it's been created an arm of the US government for propaganda purposes, that's just like what the Nazis do.

                Seriously what is this shit, of course something can be not credible because of the source, would you believe something you read on InfoNews

                • @anarchost@lemm.ee
                  hexbear
                  1
                  7 months ago

                  Yeah, sure. Same goes for all Chinese state media, all North Korean state media, all Russian state media, all Vietnamese state media, etc. All of those things could be 100% dishonest, and anything that agrees with those countries might be paid by them.

                  Which is apparently the level of conspiracy theory you, and other reactionaries, are attempting to grasp at.

                  So let's go back to the contents, and if the source offends you, we can talk about your offense after that.

                  • BelieveRevolt [he/him]
                    hexbear
                    10
                    edit-2
                    7 months ago

                    Do you even know what the word ”reactionary” means?

                    You're the only one here who's posting state propaganda and expecting people to treat it as genuine, so apparently you think US state media is somehow exceptional. And not even just state media, CIA-funded media.

        • @anarchost@lemm.ee
          hexbear
          1
          7 months ago

          But unless you have the bigotry of low expectations, you should be expecting more out of the country

          • Aryuproudomenowdaddy [comrade/them]
            hexbear
            16
            edit-2
            7 months ago

            What exactly do you want out of a society that was burnt to the ground and survived an attempted genocide? The U.S. dropped more ordinance on NK than they used in the entirety of WW2 and destruction of Japanese cities was a fraction of what the Korean people suffered. The U.S. then helped prop up an authoritarian police state in the South for decades, I'd likely be skeptical of what western democracy entailed after watching entire towns burned to a crisp with napalm. Do you also expect the Gazan population to be a liberal democracy?

              • Aryuproudomenowdaddy [comrade/them]
                hexbear
                16
                7 months ago

                A country involuntarily split and then decimated by a foreign power because they were likely to adopt a communist government is definitely the same as the Nazis, wow you're very smart.

                  • Aryuproudomenowdaddy [comrade/them]
                    hexbear
                    12
                    edit-2
                    7 months ago

                    Do you also deride the Gazan population for not being the most progressive liberal democracy in the world? Why or why not? I'm sure after seeing their families and homes turned to ash they need to condemn Hamas right?

                  • Aryuproudomenowdaddy [comrade/them]
                    hexbear
                    12
                    7 months ago

                    Show
                    Creepy that you went to PM. Why wouldn't I support the only people who are currently resisting an oppressive U.S. client state that's been murdering their friends and family for generations? It's easy to sympathize with North Korea when the U.S. did the same thing Israel is doing to the Palestinians now.