Car owners in NYC make twice as much as non car owners on average:
https://www.hunterurban.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Car-Light-NYC-Infographics-May-2024.pdf
The tolls are slated for repairs and expansion of the NYC subway system, which 1) already exists and 2) is now looking at a budget shortfall of billions of dollars because the toll was reduced from $16 to $9.
Finally, driving through lower Manhattan is not a God-given right, and it has real economic impact on the city. Traffic violence, air pollution, sound pollution, economic suppression of areas choked with cars...
Go rent an apartment right at the mouth of the Lincoln Tunnel and then tell me that an economic penalty for driving a private car instead of taking abundant public transit is a bad thing. I don't mean this in a hostile way but it honestly sounds like you do not know what you are talking about
Eh people should be biking, walking, or taking public transit in big cities like this. All the cars create a lot of issues for working class non car commuters.
Like a good reason many people can even afford to live in a city is because you're trading off car ownership costs for higher rent. Which is mostly going to be the working class making those calculations.
Just straight up banning them from parts of the city would be better though
Imagine you're an independent plumber. You need a truck to transport your tools. Every time you pass through the toll booths in the city that's more money out of your pocket.
A (truly) independent plumber is a worker that owns their own means of production. Literally the ideal.
Although it's more likely they're "independent" but working for some company using "independent contractors" as a way to avoid offering benefits and following labor laws.
Either way it's the worker that eats the fare, or has to pass it on to the customer.
Although it's more likely they're "independent" but working for some company using "independent contractors" as a way to avoid offering benefits and following labor laws.
That's called piece work, those are proles. Unusual in the trades afaik. In thoroughly unionized work like plumbing they'd be scabs. They should join their UA local 1 and get union jobs instead of scabbing.
A (truly) independent plumber is a worker that owns their own means of production. Literally the ideal.
They are an artisan, with different material interests than proles.
I think in the west, independent contractors tend to be closer to petit bourgeoisie. Also depending on the industry, are used to cross picket lines during strikes and industrial action, like the freelance armorer that was in charge of the gun Baldwin used to kill that lady was there because the union film crew walked out due to unsafe working environments.
Fwiw I don't actually know if, say, NYC plumbers have a union and if/when there are independent plumbers, they would side with the workers. Although in my experience, small business owners tend to be tyrants just as often as big business owners.
Goes back to Marx too. Artisans are not proles, and have different material interests even if they aren't petty boug. They are not alienated from their labor, even if they don't exploit proles themselves.
OP should've used rideshare drivers as her example. But piecework taxi driving is inextricable from the problem congestion pricing is trying to solve.
I think "independent plumber" was intended to mean "self-employed" in this case. I am not defending small business owners outside of the owner/operator type setup.
So make an exception for the work vehicles of essential workers. Policies should be refined and improved upon overtime, not scrapped the moment any short coming is found
In most places and situations I would agree, but NYC is a special situation. Car dependency and automotive congestion hurts everyone, so it can onlg be justified when effective public transit options do not exist. However, NYC is the only city in the US where the majority of people do not commute by car. So the vast majority of car traffic is completely unnecessary, the drivers just don't want to share a train with poor people
Yea, more workers should (and do) use public transport. It's New York, one of the few cities in the US where public transport is available, though it should be made free.
I wouldn't support such tolls in Houston because there is no other choice available.
I think the pigs will get their money either way, it's the only part of the City Government that is always overfunded.
Its unfortunate that Governments (and esp private sector) see tolls as a way to squeeze money out of people rather than as a way to manage demand.
At the end of the day, fares only hurt the working class
Car owners in NYC make twice as much as non car owners on average: https://www.hunterurban.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Car-Light-NYC-Infographics-May-2024.pdf
The tolls are slated for repairs and expansion of the NYC subway system, which 1) already exists and 2) is now looking at a budget shortfall of billions of dollars because the toll was reduced from $16 to $9.
Finally, driving through lower Manhattan is not a God-given right, and it has real economic impact on the city. Traffic violence, air pollution, sound pollution, economic suppression of areas choked with cars...
Go rent an apartment right at the mouth of the Lincoln Tunnel and then tell me that an economic penalty for driving a private car instead of taking abundant public transit is a bad thing. I don't mean this in a hostile way but it honestly sounds like you do not know what you are talking about
Eh people should be biking, walking, or taking public transit in big cities like this. All the cars create a lot of issues for working class non car commuters.
Like a good reason many people can even afford to live in a city is because you're trading off car ownership costs for higher rent. Which is mostly going to be the working class making those calculations.
Just straight up banning them from parts of the city would be better though
Imagine you're an independent plumber. You need a truck to transport your tools. Every time you pass through the toll booths in the city that's more money out of your pocket.
They charge the client. Like literally any business expense.
Like they already do for the tolls they already pay
lol yeah exactly.
Petit boug pro car apologia? In my Hexbear? It's more likely than you think
an independent plumber isn't a prole
A (truly) independent plumber is a worker that owns their own means of production. Literally the ideal.
Although it's more likely they're "independent" but working for some company using "independent contractors" as a way to avoid offering benefits and following labor laws.
Either way it's the worker that eats the fare, or has to pass it on to the customer.
That's called piece work, those are proles. Unusual in the trades afaik. In thoroughly unionized work like plumbing they'd be scabs. They should join their UA local 1 and get union jobs instead of scabbing.
They are an artisan, with different material interests than proles.
I will not tolerate this Mario Mario slander
??
I think in the west, independent contractors tend to be closer to petit bourgeoisie. Also depending on the industry, are used to cross picket lines during strikes and industrial action, like the freelance armorer that was in charge of the gun Baldwin used to kill that lady was there because the union film crew walked out due to unsafe working environments.
Fwiw I don't actually know if, say, NYC plumbers have a union and if/when there are independent plumbers, they would side with the workers. Although in my experience, small business owners tend to be tyrants just as often as big business owners.
Goes back to Marx too. Artisans are not proles, and have different material interests even if they aren't petty boug. They are not alienated from their labor, even if they don't exploit proles themselves.
OP should've used rideshare drivers as her example. But piecework taxi driving is inextricable from the problem congestion pricing is trying to solve.
The only solution is to ban cars.
I think "independent plumber" was intended to mean "self-employed" in this case. I am not defending small business owners outside of the owner/operator type setup.
I did mean self-employed plumber. For example, a family plumbing business comprising of two brothers.
So make an exception for the work vehicles of essential workers. Policies should be refined and improved upon overtime, not scrapped the moment any short coming is found
Yeah I mean my field has workers driving all around the megalopolis and we just charge the client for costs like that
That's a bit different than taking a drive throughh the park on a Sunday afternoon
Wait can you not write those off as a business expense in Amerikkka? Lmao what a shithole country.
In most places and situations I would agree, but NYC is a special situation. Car dependency and automotive congestion hurts everyone, so it can onlg be justified when effective public transit options do not exist. However, NYC is the only city in the US where the majority of people do not commute by car. So the vast majority of car traffic is completely unnecessary, the drivers just don't want to share a train with poor people
Yea, more workers should (and do) use public transport. It's New York, one of the few cities in the US where public transport is available, though it should be made free.
I wouldn't support such tolls in Houston because there is no other choice available.