I have been using XMPP for a while and I really like it. Anybody else use XMPP? I know it's not that popular any more but I think it's better than Telegram or Signal (because it's not centralized).

  • linux [none/use name]
    ·
    4 years ago

    The problem with that approach is that most the users are using Facebook Messenger or something.

      • linux [none/use name]
        ·
        4 years ago

        The different between something like the de-Googled Android operating systems and posh versus XMPP and Matrix is that, to my knowledge, there's nothing about XMPP that truly makes it inherently worse at the protocol level. Its main drawback, aside from its small userbase, is that most of its clients are not very good. Admittedly it is good to see excitement around Matrix because a lot of clients are being worked on. But had Matrix not been around I would have hoped XMPP would have gained more traction by now.

        The de-Googled Android operating systems have the issue of being overwhelmingly full of Google code. It's too difficult to remove it all, I don't think even the best de-Googled OS manage that. XMPP doesn't have a similar flaw that Matrix fixes, in the way that the new Linux UI work does with Android.

          • linux [none/use name]
            ·
            4 years ago

            Fair enough, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

            Yeah, that Moxie post is pretty infamous, and I have a lot of thoughts on it (won't write them all because it'd take too long). Mainly though I think he makes a very good point, and is more or less right.

            The Matrix devs talk about this a lot, and is why for example they have Matrix Spec Proposals. Those are meant to work around the critique (they can be very informal, easy to submit, lots get merged). With the hype Matrix is getting these days, I think it could offer a federated way forward.

            Even with that out the way, I think a lot of the reason centralized services do so well is because it's just easier to use them. If a non-technical user tries XMPP and Matrix, they're going to be confused ("why do I need to sign up to an instance, and which do I choose?"). Compared to Signal, you just give it your number and you're done, it's so much easier. This aspect of federated vs non-federated is not solved (Matrix's "solution" is to have a de-facto primary instance, matrix.org, but that undermines a lot of its federated claims). I think advances in UI/UX will eventually lead to this being less of an issue.