Fuck Arch, Gentoo is easy, universal, understandable and logical. Why should beginners have to mess around with ramdisks and systemd when most casual users don't need it?
Can you give a concrete example of a complicated task that's hard in systemd but easy in initd? I've never actually heard of one given although everyone complains about them.
From my standpoint, the average user doesn't interact with systemd or initd beyond spinning up services installed via the package manager. So this whole spat is isolated to power users and admins. The most complicated systems script I wrote myself was a mbsyc service on a timer.
I am the average user and not a power user. I prefer the initd system by far because it's basically impossible to break and very simple. I've run into systemd bugs too many times to ever use it again.
I'm sure you can break the init system if you tried...
Its just really telling to me that everyone who gives non-ideological complaints about systemd are never specific about the issue. Like are you sure it was a systems bug and not a bug with whatever service? Or maybe your weren't using it right?
Because systemd is basically everywhere in a Linux system, I suspect its falling victim to a simple pattern:
Something breaks somewhere in your system
Systemd is always involved in the system that broke because its involved in everything.
User concludes systemd is bad because it has a 100% correlation your systems bugs even if it wasnt the culrpit.
It tries to do a lot in a very centralized way and (initially) didn't have many devs so it was kinda risky.
Because it does so much and is centralized, making something that works with it can sometimes be quite the pain. Some init systems just require you to write a script, for example. One little file. systemd requires at least its own special service file and if you want to do anything more complex there are 5-10 subcomponents you might have to study for a while before you can begin.
I think it's a good direction, though. I'd much rather see iterations on this one central system where you can find/edit/start/stop/log services than fight with some random hackneyed init system.
Systemd unit file are not so hard to write really and are much more robust than older script systems, which are usually held together with tape and do not handle failure well. They were always one of the worst design choices of UNIX and are extremely fragile, to order especially. Systemd also keep a central state for services, which is very logical and necessary to manage services to modern standard.
I'd like to interject for just a moment. What you're referring to as GNU/Linux is actually just one free component of a fully functioning systemd system.
Fuck Arch, Gentoo is easy, universal, understandable and logical. Why should beginners have to mess around with ramdisks and systemd when most casual users don't need it?
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It's easier than wrestling systemd u noob
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Synthesis: Gentoo with systemd. :comfy-cool:
yeah i fucking will idc if you're a cat
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Can you give a concrete example of a complicated task that's hard in systemd but easy in initd? I've never actually heard of one given although everyone complains about them.
From my standpoint, the average user doesn't interact with systemd or initd beyond spinning up services installed via the package manager. So this whole spat is isolated to power users and admins. The most complicated systems script I wrote myself was a mbsyc service on a timer.
I am the average user and not a power user. I prefer the initd system by far because it's basically impossible to break and very simple. I've run into systemd bugs too many times to ever use it again.
I'm sure you can break the init system if you tried...
Its just really telling to me that everyone who gives non-ideological complaints about systemd are never specific about the issue. Like are you sure it was a systems bug and not a bug with whatever service? Or maybe your weren't using it right?
Because systemd is basically everywhere in a Linux system, I suspect its falling victim to a simple pattern:
emerge -e worldis a good way to heat your home and run linux at the same time.What’s everyone’s beef with systemd?
It tries to do a lot in a very centralized way and (initially) didn't have many devs so it was kinda risky.
Because it does so much and is centralized, making something that works with it can sometimes be quite the pain. Some init systems just require you to write a script, for example. One little file. systemd requires at least its own special service file and if you want to do anything more complex there are 5-10 subcomponents you might have to study for a while before you can begin.
I think it's a good direction, though. I'd much rather see iterations on this one central system where you can find/edit/start/stop/log services than fight with some random hackneyed init system.
BROKE: Getting mad at systemd
WOKE: Getting mad at pulseaudio and pipewire.
BESPOKE: Getting mad at macrokernels
2030 will be the year of GNU Hurd on the desktop.
Systemd unit file are not so hard to write really and are much more robust than older script systems, which are usually held together with tape and do not handle failure well. They were always one of the worst design choices of UNIX and are extremely fragile, to order especially. Systemd also keep a central state for services, which is very logical and necessary to manage services to modern standard.
Yeah I've written a few they're not so bad. But it is one of the things people complain about.
I'd like to interject for just a moment. What you're referring to as GNU/Linux is actually just one free component of a fully functioning systemd system.
BitchingWhining about systemd is reactionaryisn't gentoo 10x harder to install than arch?