Permanently Deleted

  • LaBellaLotta [any]
    ·
    3 years ago

    I’ve heard this argument vaguely before and I gotta say it makes sense but I don’t think it’s a bad thing.

    • IlIlIlIlIlIlIl [any]
      ·
      edit-2
      3 years ago

      Another factor that is very common in the western left is to treat suffering and extreme poverty as elements of superiority. It is very common in Western leftist culture to support martyrs and suffering. Everyone today likes Salvador Allende. Why? Salvador Allende is a victim, a martyr. He was assassinated in Pinochet’s coup d’ etat. When Hugo Chavez was alive, many sectors of the left turned their nose up at him. If he had been killed, for example, in the 2002 Coup attempt, he would be adored by the immense majority of the western left today, as a symbol of suffering and martyrdom. Since he continued exercising power as leader of a political process which, by necessity, had various contradictions, he was increasingly abandoned, as time passed -- I don’t even have to mention what has happened to Maduro here. These same sectors which celebrate and support the idea of Allende because he defended democratic socialism do not see or do not want to see that Allende governed almost entirely through decrees. At the time, the Chilean constitution had a legal mechanism which enabled the executive branch to govern by decrees that did not have to be approved by parliament or the Supreme Court. So Allende was able to make laws through decrees which bypassed Congress and the Supreme Court. Since Allende did not have a majority in Congress and suffered a lot from the bourgeois opposition, he basically governed through decree throughout his entire mandate. This kind of action today is enough justification to label any left leader that practices it as authoritarian, to compare him to Trump, Bolsonaro, or Orban. If Allende was alive today he would also be criticized, but he died.

      [...]

      Another example of this is the situation with Ché Guevarra and Fidel Castro. To most western leftists, Che Guevara represents a rebel dreamer. In real life he was not, but they have built this image around him. Ché Guevara died immolated in the jungles of Bolivia, so now he is a symbol of sacrifice, martyrdom and the agony of defeat. Fidel stayed in Cuba as leader of the Cuban Revolution and all of the contradictions of this process. Today he is viewed as a bureaucrat, without charm or appeal, by many if not the majority of the western left. Ché Guevara is an eternal symbol of resistance, of dreaming, of utopia that is unfulfilled because of death.

      https://www.blackagendareport.com/western-marxism-loves-purity-and-martyrdom-not-real-revolution

      The Christian narrative of martyrdom promotes defeat and demotes victory. That is harmful.

      • nohaybanda [he/him]
        cake
        ·
        3 years ago

        I remember watching this paganism youtube channel a few moths ago. In one of the videos (I think it was on animism) this guy made a very interesting observation. Ancient pagan and animist practices were, he claims, world affirming whereas the Abrahamic religions are world defying. What he means by this is that the former anchor spiritual practice in the here and now, on the relationship between self and the world we inhabit. In contrast, world denying religions seek spiritual fulfillment beyond this reality, they deny the centrality of our world to spiritual growth and place us outside of it. I can look up the video and share it if people are interested.

          • nohaybanda [he/him]
            cake
            ·
            3 years ago

            Ooof, I just noticed I was posting in c/christianity. I'm gonna take the pagan discussion elsewhere.

            That said, I'd be curious to find out more about your views on this: "We should deny this world, denial creates conflict, conflict creates change and improvement. Denial is an affirmation of reality." I don't think I'm familiar with any mainstream Christian theology which espouses such a view. This comes quite close to Gnosticism, but I don't wanna put words in your mouth.

              • nohaybanda [he/him]
                cake
                ·
                3 years ago

                so you can work to build the Kingdom of Heaven.

                Where do you build it, though? Does it have a material reality? Because I'm fairly certain that (for most Christian denominations) the Kingdom of God is generally thought to come about after Judgement day.