In Dune: Messiah, Paul becomes just as grotesque and evil as the Harokonnens, though the knowledge of his own transformation wears on his psyche, further depressing and fragmenting him. Essentially, it emphasizes that there is no such thing as a 'good' empire because empire comes with its own set of rules and contradictions that not even a chosen one can overcome.
Yeah it's awesome that the message gets better as the series progresses, but the initial framing of "here, this one is the good empire" is still pretty cringe (to me, though I haven't read the books so this opinion is purely based on the film)
Yeah, I imagine the writers room will be sweating buckets at the mere prospect of using the word jihad so I'm really interested to see how closely they stick to the (from what I've heard and intend to read soon) religious complexity, especially given how propagandised western audiences are toward Islam
I don't want to hate on idiot leftists but i'm already dreading the "oh, so these muslim-coded people are doing a jihad? How problematic" discourse.
I've seen them complain about how none of the main fremen actors were arab but i honestly think it's for the best given what will happen later in the series.
You need to see several steps ahead when engaging in discourse. Just like Leto II, the most powerful poster.
If they're following the books then it mostly depends on how many movies they get. Since this one is basic the first half of a five hour movie and they just didn't make the second half yet, I'm okay with waiting and seeing on it.
Yeah it’s awesome that the message gets better as the series progresses
That was kind of the point. The message doesn't "get better," the message of the series was always "Oh, but what if you really aren't helping as much as you think you are?"
but the initial framing of “here, this one is the good empire” is still pretty cringe
This is not the case, the Empire is never "good" at any point in the series, at it's best point it could be described as "the least-bad version of the future as interpreted by the subjective analysis of a demi-god." This premise exists to be subverted within the story; but you just have to read all the books and analyze it as one work to reach this point.
That was kind of the point. The message doesn’t “get better,” the message of the series was always “Oh, but what if you really aren’t helping as much as you think you are?”
This is not the case, the Empire is never “good” at any point in the series, at it’s best point it could be described as “the least-bad version of the future as interpreted by the subjective analysis of a demi-god.” This premise exists to be subverted within the story; but you just have to read all the books and analyze it as one work to reach this point.
Mate very good points, you're absolutely right. I guess I'm just overly excited for the message about all empires being evil, and wanted more of that payoff ahead of its time! As I said in another comment I'm more worried about the book-less watcher's interpretation becoming that house atreides are the good guys since most of them are killed off whilst still highly sympathetic characters. Btw you've convinced me even more that I can't wait to read the books!
Sorry if what I said doesn't make sense btw I just got home and I'm quite drunk :bird-screm1:
If you don't want spoilers don't read this.
spoiler
In Dune: Messiah, Paul becomes just as grotesque and evil as the Harokonnens, though the knowledge of his own transformation wears on his psyche, further depressing and fragmenting him. Essentially, it emphasizes that there is no such thing as a 'good' empire because empire comes with its own set of rules and contradictions that not even a chosen one can overcome.
Yeah it's awesome that the message gets better as the series progresses, but the initial framing of "here, this one is the good empire" is still pretty cringe (to me, though I haven't read the books so this opinion is purely based on the film)
Well, yeah, Hollywood is still Hollywood, we'll see if they get the message across in this series.
Yeah, I imagine the writers room will be sweating buckets at the mere prospect of using the word jihad so I'm really interested to see how closely they stick to the (from what I've heard and intend to read soon) religious complexity, especially given how propagandised western audiences are toward Islam
I don't want to hate on idiot leftists but i'm already dreading the "oh, so these muslim-coded people are doing a jihad? How problematic" discourse.
I've seen them complain about how none of the main fremen actors were arab but i honestly think it's for the best given what will happen later in the series.
You need to see several steps ahead when engaging in discourse. Just like Leto II, the most powerful poster.
If they're following the books then it mostly depends on how many movies they get. Since this one is basic the first half of a five hour movie and they just didn't make the second half yet, I'm okay with waiting and seeing on it.
That was kind of the point. The message doesn't "get better," the message of the series was always "Oh, but what if you really aren't helping as much as you think you are?"
This is not the case, the Empire is never "good" at any point in the series, at it's best point it could be described as "the least-bad version of the future as interpreted by the subjective analysis of a demi-god." This premise exists to be subverted within the story; but you just have to read all the books and analyze it as one work to reach this point.
Also fuck Brian Herbert.
deleted by creator
Mate very good points, you're absolutely right. I guess I'm just overly excited for the message about all empires being evil, and wanted more of that payoff ahead of its time! As I said in another comment I'm more worried about the book-less watcher's interpretation becoming that house atreides are the good guys since most of them are killed off whilst still highly sympathetic characters. Btw you've convinced me even more that I can't wait to read the books!
Sorry if what I said doesn't make sense btw I just got home and I'm quite drunk :bird-screm1: