- cross-posted to:
- opensource@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- opensource@lemmy.ml
Quite a few posts about selecting a distro to use. Maybe it's time to make that link a little more prominent?
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Oh boy here we go again
Distrochooser is not a good resource for newbies IMO. There are too many questions, many of which are misleading or hard to understand (NOBODY taking this knows what systemd is)
Many answers are misleasing: "I want a distro that is supported by game publishers" for example implies each distro has its own game compatibility, this is NOT the case.
And when you're finally done it recommends too many distros, many of which are irrelevant, niche, or flat out not recommended anymore (PCLinuxOS?!?!)
When someone asks for a distro, please just run a random number generator to choose between ZorinOS, PopOS, or Linux Mint. If someone is only gaming, maybe include Nobara too.
Exactly! Many of the criteria included aren't all that good for new users, and neither are the suggestions. It's not really a good resource for experienced users either.
Yeah, I disagree. It's the least subjective resource I can find as nobody asks the questions on that questionnaire here. I'd much prefer it if people used distrochooser and then shared their answers (e.g https://distrochooser.de/en/d5b60b6e6134/), wrote some extra stuff e.g "I want NVIDIA support because I want CUDA" or something, and based on that, we recommend distros. Instead of the herd mentality of "duh, linux mint stoopeed"
Distrochooser says following about fedora
- Not suitable for beginners
- Requires further knowledge about computers
Without any context. Distrochooser is a fun little game but you shouldn't rely on it or quote it.
Moreover, it would be nice if there was any hint about the choices.
Most distributions are free. Some distributions offer additional support for a one-time fee.
- I prefer a free-to-use distribution
- I would be fine to pay a fee
Show which distros are free as in beer and which are not.
And more importantly, you pay a fee for support. If you are a home user you most likely do not need paid support.
That avoiding systemd is even a choise is nuts
I want to avoid systemd
Yes, there are people who avoid systemd but thhere's nothing to fear about systemd and this topic shouldn't be brought up.
Linux can use a lot of different User Interfaces ("Desktops"). Many distributions ship one desktop as default. It is important to know if you have any preferences for a desktop concept. You can switch and install new desktops at any time!
And the answers are windows or mac. Please go away from that mantra. Many would say GNOME is macish but GNOME's workflow is different from macos. It is not macos and it doesn't want to be macos, afaik. GNOME's workflow is revolutionary and saying it's like mac isn't nice. Neither is KDE windows, it breaks with microsoft design choices.
Asking 32 or 64 bit is outdated. Which computer even ships 32 now
Where does following question lead me?
How would you rate your knowledge of Linux itself? I have little or no knowledge about Linux I have already used Linux for some purposes I have a good understanding about the Linux operating system
Fedora is for everyone. Linux mint is used by everyone. Opensuse is used by everyone. Arch is used if you want to go deeper. Nixos is maybe not plug and play. Even if you are a linux pro, you may use ubuntu. It just doesn't feel right.
Fedora is not for everyone. I think the assessment of that site is correct. When I first installed it, it came with KDE and Wayland installed. Wayland couldn't share screens at the time and my webcam didn't work. Which new user has the time to understand the difference between X11 and Wayland? I also wanted to install OBSStudio and finding an rpm repo was no fun at all.
In the end, I uninstalled Fedora.
I agree that Fedora's habit for pushing (sometimes breaking) changes is definitely something to keep an eye out. However, it has been so good over the last (almost) two years. I would even argue that Fedora has become more self-conscious of the consequences and (especially) how this might affect their more casual user base.
Btw, how long ago did you try out Fedora? FWIW, Fedora (Silverblue; to be more precise[1]) was the first distro that I've tried and while I've had some experiences with other distros over time (mostly through dual boot), Fedora (Atomic) seems to have become the distro I call home.
- It's probably not as masochistic as you might think for a new user 😅. Though I'd have to say that it took some effort, control and discipline to not instantly go back to Windows (or any other Linux distro for that matter).
Fedora must've been during COVID, because I can't remember the year. If things are better now, then maybe distrochooser has to be updated. It's on github, so if you believe it's become user-friendly, do contribute.
Fedora must’ve been during COVID, because I can’t remember the year.
That explains a lot of why you felt that way about Fedora. Thank you for enlightening us on that!
If things are better now, then maybe distrochooser has to be updated.
Can't agree more.
It’s on github, so if you believe it’s become user-friendly, do contribute.
Honestly, I've tried to contribute in the past; but it didn't feel as if they got implemented. Perhaps the maintainer contributed them without making any notice of it, but it doesn't feel that way. I've since given up on it.
While I get why distrochooser.de is romanticized, in its current iteration it's simply not very good and anyone that is somewhat well-versed in how different distros operate and how Distrochooser works, will tell you the same. At best, it provides some orientation into what some of the more common distros are. But it fails to answer some fundamental questions in the process; like:
- What is the relation between a distro and its derivative and (more importantly) how does that matter to a user?
- How exactly does a distribution's chosen release model affect software and updates? And while we're into that, what's even the difference between the "stable" used when talking about point release distros that opt to freeze packages over longer periods of time vs the "stable" that's brought up in conversations regarding update concerns and how they might break software (I'm honestly not even sure if the one(s) responsible for writing the parts of Distrochooser even know(s) themselves)[1].
There are a lot of other fundamental questions that are involved in the decision for picking a distro that would have made a lot more sense than the ones found on Distrochooser. E.g. Do you use an Nvidia GPU and want this to cause no issues in the process of installation and is this your biggest concern? If yes: then just use Pop!_OS. Otherwise, move on to the other questions etc. I think the fact that a flowchart isn't used for some uses and that ultimately priorities aren't brought up to finalize the decision are the two biggest issues that Distrochooser has in its current iteration.
And we haven't even gone over the many distros that despite having little to no user base are still included in the results, while (more recent) 'staples' like Garuda and Nobara are clearly left out for reasons most likely related to the maintainers not being able to keep up with the Linux landscape. Which, to be fair, is quite hard; so I don't blame them. I, in fact, applaud them for their continued contributions and hope that some day it will become something that we can proudly present to others for their first orientation.
Allow me to end this with a question to OP:
- Do you feel the same way about excellent websites like DistroWatch.com and DistroSea?[2]
- If yes; Why didn't you make a similar post for either of the two instead?
- If no; Why not?
- Sure, there is some overlap in what they mean and how they're used, but it's a very important distinction; otherwise openSUSE's stable rolling release designation for their Tumbleweed wouldn't make any sense.
- If anything, I think these two actually make more sense to be included.
IMO you're thinking too much as an advanced user for a simple user. The only point I agree on is the NVIDIA GPU. If you feel up to it, contribute. The website's code is on Github https://github.com/distrochooser/distrochooser
I've never heard of nor used Garuda. As I said, feel free to contribute.
Do you feel the same way about excellent websites like DistroWatch.com and DistroSea?
Never heard of DistroSea. It seem like a good complement to DistroChooser. It works for most usecases:
- narrow down what fits for you by answering a questionnaire (DistroChooser)
- if you feel like it, test a few of the suggested distros from the questionnaire on DistroSea
DistroWatch as useful as statista.com for suggesting your next travel destination. If you had to travel somewhere and had a list of criteria, but didn't want to spend all day researching, would you go to a travel agent or open an encyclopedia?
I think many in the community, like yourself, have forgotten what it's like to give just enough of a fuck to change something but not to want to be too invested. A beginner isn't going to want to understand why a system is stable or not: they just want a stable system. You don't have to explain to them "Yeah, so the configuration is a file, you see? Only you edit that file. Then you run this command that interprets the file and build a dependency tree, downloads everything necessary, to a partition that's temporarily mounted as read-write, symlinks to....". Nobody cares. The average user DGAF.
Imagine if you just wanted to get a vacuum cleaner at the store with 3 criteria. Imagine you don't give a rat's ass about vacuum cleaner. You just want to point the thing at the ground, let it succ all the bits, but as quietly as possible, and not break down in 2 years to force you back out here. But the sales person you get harps on about the genius of the person who invented some internal component you've never heard of, goes on to explain why, ideologically, getting a certain brand is the only way because blablablabla. Maybe you'd buy a vacuum cleaner just to shut them up or walk out of the store.
My optimal experience would be the sales person listening to me, lining up the best candidates, and explaining, in bullet points, why they are there. Then finally, ask me if I have a favorite and to give me a test environment. If I don't understand something, I can ask more questions.- narrow down options --> DistroChooser
- test them --> DistroSea
- more questions --> right here
What if we put together a table like https://github.com/basings/selfhosted-music-overview or https://github.com/meichthys/foss_photo_libraries ?
If one starts, I bet we can create an awesome table.
That's the biggest problem.
- Determine which festures are relevant to a user
- Actualy differences between distributions
A difference could be ufw and firewalld but is that important?
That's why distrochooser is a questionnaire 🤷
But the questions aren't good enough as you can see from the responses here
"systemd question shouldn't be there"
skip it
"NVIDIA GPU question is missing"
contribute https://github.com/distrochooser/distrochooser
"too many options"
I want to say "read it", but IMO this is presentation, because pros and cons are clearly listed, but maybe it looks like a lot of text. Maybe people need some kind of visual like a podium and a drum roll. 🥁 "aaaand your top suggestions arreeee"...
Also, people aren't suggesting alternatives except: "make a bot that randomly picks a popular distro". Is that really how we want to treat new users? "Please hold, in the meantime, here's an automated response." Do you follow advice given in automated responses when you're holding on a line?
The random choice isn't really a joke. It doesn't matter too much which distro you pick. Any distro of the big ones sill suit your needs.
There will be cases where one or the other will not fulfill your needs out of the box
The systemd question keeps the mantra alive that there is something wrong with systemd which isn't. This has to die sooner rather than later.
I like distro chooser, but the analysis seems off. It always recommends some mainstream distro that I end up hating after extended use. I've finally found one I like, but it was through brute force, not from some list somewhere or from asking in forums.
