Preface

Based on the feedback I got from this comment, it seems the masses of Hexbear (three or so people) clamor for some philosophy slop.

In this TED talk I will expand in detail an argument which lead me to think physicalism in the philosophy of mind is wrong and will lead to dead ends if pursued further.

I was hoping I would be able to cite actual marxists but unfortunately I've found not many dealt with the mind-body problem in great detail. Both Engels and Lenin argued against vulgar, or mechanistic, materialism (which is essentially what physicalism is today) but IMO didn't really give a coherent enough alternative that doesn’t just boil down to the same thing anyway. If you're interested in an overview of the classical marxist view of the problem check this out, it’s a sci-hub link so beware if you’re on a corporate/academic network.. If you know about some stuff from lesser known marxist authors feel free to share.

The argument I'm about to present is not original, I found it in at least three separate places but it was never never given a fair shake IMO or it was not elaborated in enough detail.

Some definitions

  • Physicalism: The idea that every phenomenon in the universe can be explained entirely in terms of physical properties and interactions of matter. This is essentially synonymous with materialism but I’m using this term since it’s a more popular name in scientific circles and to differentiate it from dialectical materialism.
  • Qualia: individual instances of subjective, conscious experience. You can think of them as pieces of phenomenal consciousness that add up to be what is like to be you.
  • Hard problem of consciousness: the problem of explaining how or why we have qualia at all given a (seemingly) entirely physical world.

The argument

The outline of the argument is as follows: The theory of evolution and a physicalist solution to the hard problem of consciousness are incompatible unless you make some really strange assumptions which I believe you have no business to be doing if you at all care about scientific rigor.

The physicalist asserts that all there is to qualia is configuration or movement of matter and energy in the physical world. Their solution to the hard problem boils down to finding out how brain matter interacts with the body and the rest of the physical world and that is all that phenomenal consciousness is.

This line of thinking entails that since the contents of qualia themselves are wholly dependent on (or derived from, created by, supervenes on… the exact wording doesn’t matter much) the workings of the physical world, the qualia in of themselves do not have any causal efficacy on the physical world. You’ve probably seen this formulated elsewhere as “there is no true free will”, what we feel, think and do is, according to the physicalist, entirely determined by the physical world.

You could now make the “philosophical zombie” argument and ask why is there even qualia at all if the physical universe would act just the same without them existing. The standard physicalist answer to that is that “clearly we live in such a universe so what’s the point in asking that question” seems like begging the question to me but this is not the focus of this thread so let’s just assume the physicalists are right and there are some configurations of matter and energy that result in qualia being experienced.

Let’s put all of that aside for a bit and remember how evolution works in the natural world. You have a bunch of biological organisms competing for survival in various ways through the mechanism of natural selection. Natural selection works through random genetic mutations that happen in organisms over generations. If the random mutation on average leads to traits that help that species survive more easily then the mutation be passed on to future generations of that species because the organisms that have it will on average live longer or will be more capable of reproducing. If the mutation leads to traits that are harmful, the organisms that have that mutation will die off more quickly or will not reproduce as effectively.

From this it naturally follows that if an evolved trait is to be tested in the material world as either beneficial, harmful or even neutral it needs to have some sort of causal efficacy in the material world. It’s clear why our arms and legs evolved such as they did, they are material things that interact in obvious ways with the rest of the material world. So where does this leave our consciousness, which the physicalists deny all causal efficacy?

Intuitively, it is evident that the contents of our qualia have helped us evolutionarily. We don’t put our hands in fire because when we do it makes us feel great pain which is extremely uncomfortable to our minds. We have sex and reproduce because it makes us feel very good. However according to the physicalist account these subjective feelings of hurt and pleasure are entirely irrelevant to our behavior.

This leads me to the core of the argument: How is it possible under a physicalist account of consciousness that the contents of our qualia correspond so closely to our actual wants, needs and behavior in the physical world when they had no reason to evolve in such a way, or even at all?

Why have we evolved to see a red apple when a red apple is put in front of us? For every configuration of matter that we assume produces some specific set qualia, in this case seeing a red apple, we can also imagine a mind-bogglingly large number of sets of qualia that could be produced by that same configuration of matter: seeing a green pear, seeing a chair, near infinite permutations of randomly flickering colors etc. Why should we, under a physicalist account of consciousness, expect to see a red apple when the experience of seeing a red apple had no causal efficacy on the physical world when we evolved sight?

There is one coherent counterargument to this that I know of. The physicalist could assert that qualia are a spandrel, meaning a trait that is an accidental byproduct of evolution that isn’t a result of natural selection. To that I would respond that would be quite a remarkable spandrel. We’ve already determined that for any configuration of matter in the brain we can imagine an enormous amount of qualia that configuration could produce. If the contents of these qualia are accidental it would be quite a spectacular coincidence that they just so closely correspond to what our body is actually doing. Why aren’t we all screaming internally in agony while the neurons of our body do whatever they do according to the laws of physics? Assuming this amazing coincidence is true over rethinking physicalism is for me absurd and entirely unscientific since it goes against all scientific instincts and rules of thumb that helped scientists of the past make great leaps in our understanding of the world. How is assuming a one in damn near infinity coincidence the most parsimonious explanation for what’s happening? It would be akin to particle physicists seeing consistent measurements that go against their latest models and shrugging their shoulders and declaring them as anomalies and really strange coincidences.

In most aspects of human life we put great importance on our qualia. All of politics, the fight for rights, the entire field of ethics, psychology, psychiatry and most laws we made all revolve around achieving a more desirable state of human consciousness, yet on the most fundamental level mainstream science gives it no credence at all. I think it’s time to rethink this.

FAQ

Q: But I’ve seen experiments that strongly indicate that physicalism is correct, how does this mesh with all that was said?

A: The science isn’t all that clear on what’s really going on. There is still a whole lot we don’t really understand about the brain. Some experiments have shown this, but others have rebuttals for these results, some results have shown the opposite, other people have rebuttals for that etc. It’s definitely not as clear cut as it is in the global pop-sci culture. For example this shows that an old experiment that seemingly proved physicalism is flawed.

Q: Does this mean God exists?

A: Don’t know, I’m so far only convinced there is something that is non-physical, I don’t know what it is exactly, where it came from or how it works.

Q: Should I get into astrology and magic?

A: Probably not. There is no reason we should be making such huge leaps in logic. Our scientific methods can IMO still very much be useful when exploring the non-physical. We just need to get over ourselves a bit and admit we were wrong about physicalism.

Q: Does this mean dialectical materialism is bunk?

A: I don’t think this means much for Marxism and dialectical materialism. Like I said in the beginning most marxist thinkers didn’t really invest much time in thinking about the fundamental relationship between mind and matter nor should they IMO, marxism should be more concerned about history of society, actual lived experience and improving society over highly theoretical debates like this. Moreover I think the dialectical method is flexible enough to accommodate the non-physical.

This concludes my TED talk, thank you for sticking around for this long.

  • Stylistillusional [none/use name]
    ·
    2 years ago

    Why have we evolved to see a red apple when a red apple is put in front of us? For every configuration of matter that we assume produces some specific set qualia, in this case seeing a red apple, we can also imagine a mind-bogglingly large number of sets of qualia that could be produced by that same configuration of matter: seeing a green pear, seeing a chair, near infinite permutations of randomly flickering colors etc. Why should we, under a physicalist account of consciousness, expect to see a red apple when the experience of seeing a red apple had no causal efficacy on the physical world when we evolved sight?

    There is a lot that physically has to happen before you have the experience of seeing an apple. If that physical process does not happen you will not have the conscious experience of seeing an apple. I'm not sure I see why having the experience of seeing a red apple requires qualia to have physical efficacy. Qualia could just supervene on the physical substrate which is responsible for effective interaction with the physical world.

    At the same time, the characterisation of evolution as simple natural selection is an oversimplification. Although it's been a while since I have thought about these subjects so I couldn't tell you whether this means anything for your evolution argument.

    • gobble_ghoul [he/him]
      ·
      2 years ago

      At the same time, the characterisation of evolution as simple natural selection is an oversimplification. Although it’s been a while since I have thought about these subjects so I couldn’t tell you whether this means anything for your evolution argument.

      for one thing

      If the random mutation on average leads to traits that help that species survive more easily then the mutation be passed on to future generations of that species because the organisms that have it will on average live longer or will be more capable of reproducing.

      it is not true that natural selection particularly cares how long you live except relative to when you can reproduce. it only cares about successful reproduction, which is why we have organisms with lifespans ranging between thousands of years and literal minutes. if longevity were important, i don't see why the range would be so broad.

      you are also correct that natural selection is not the only evolutionary process at hand - OP mentioned spandrels, which aren't specifically selected for but result from other traits that were. there is also plenty of stuff like population bottlenecks where deleterious mutations evolve and get passed down simply because they weren't harmful enough to prevent reproduction and the population is small enough that it gets spread, even if the mutation does over all reduce fitness. if that's allowed to continue it can lead to extinction (see mammoths on wrangel island), but that doesn't have to happen and a species can survive that worse for wear but able to re-accumulate beneficial mutations. it's not selected for because of any benefit to the organism that gives it an edge over related individuals competing for reproductive success, but because there aren't enough other individuals around for it not to be passed down. this is how you get things like colorblindness and deafness being widespread in island communities.