You can play the blame game all you want, but what's going to help anyone today?
Well isn't that fucking rich, since Israel right nowtoday is committing a genocide, a real, actual ethnicity-wiping-out, mass-child-murder genocide. I think we can go ahead and "play the blame game" there and blame Zionists for doing a bit worse than an oopsie. What makes you saying that even more tone deaf is that the Zionists are trying to victim-blame it on Palestinians! Maybe once everyone understands who really is to fucking blame here, it will make helping people today a lot more possible.
I am not personally responsible for what people did decades before I was born.
You are personally responsible for any ways in which you benefit from the continued oppression of a people whose stolen land many of them were murdered for that you continue to live on.
Why -- and where -- should I evacuate?
Why? You're asking why should you give back something your parents stole from people that are still asking for it back (the ones who survived anyway)? As for where you should "evacuate," you could probably just stay there in the post-occupation Palestine, it just wouldn't be an apartheid ethnostate, rather a state that doesn't deny the human rights of people by their ethnicity and religion and actually affords justice with equity, part of which includes returning land to those individual people and families it was stolen from. In fact if you're not in a house that literally belonged to a violently-evicted Palestinian family, or in a house that was built over the bulldozed ruins of homes of Palestinians, then you may be fine living exactly where you are right now. I know you have the settler-colonial mindset of being afraid of violent reprisal for the crimes your parents previously committed and your government currently is committing, but no, actually most people even after horrendous oppression don't feel the need or even desire to go on a killing spree of their oppressors. White settler South Africans were afraid of that too, but no, turns out oppressed people tend not to behave like violent settler colonists themselves did. If you were still afraid of that anyway, you could as you said, evacuate since from my understanding many western states would sponsor you to move there.
Two states living peacefully side by side is the only future that isn't a genocide.
This is complete nonsense. I hope you read the rest of the thread, because this fact has been made clear. There is precedent for this.
Okay, let me rephrase... Do you think most Palestinians want that? I think the number of people who want that, both Israeli and Palestinian, is negligible. And I count myself among them.
That's not what I asked. I asked if you think most Palestinians want to live in the same country under the same shared government as the Jewish population that lives here?
The Palestinian Jews, Christians, and Muslisms seemed to be pretty okay with living together.
Then European Jews showed up and installed their own genocidal, apartheid ethnostate. Obviously that ethnostate—which is a political entity, distinct from the European Jews themselves—must go.
I didn't ask you if it was or not. Why do you think a new state would be worse than the present genocidal settler-colonial state of Israel?
In order to be against a new one-state solution, you'd have to prove why you think the present situation is preferable, or that there aren't better alternatives.
As it stands, you are tacitly approving the genocide and settler-colonialism, even if you don't morally agree with it, which is why I am asking what your problem with a one-state solution is.
I'd really fucking love to stop oil companies from polluting our planet and making climate change worse by the day, but it's not realistic to shut them down tomorrow. Do I need to explain why that's not realistic either?
Vibes are truly the pinnacle of material geopolitical analysis.
You have no points, just vibes. Push for a one-state solution, come up with a meaningful alternative that is factually better, or admit that you're okay with the status quo of genocide and settler colonialism.
The mistrust between the Israeli population and the Palestinian population goes back decades. And here you come - an outsider, am I right? - to decide for us what the best solution is and to essentially "just get along". Do you have any idea what people in Palestine and Israel actually think, and actually feel? You're completely tone deaf. To decide as an outsider what we should be doing is rooted in exactly the same origins as colonialism - western powers think they can decide what the world should look like, and bend everyone to their will. Even if you think you're right, you're just tone deaf.
That's what Palestinians have been supporting though. The Israeli slaughter of Palestinians via genocide has indeed gone back 75 years, it sounds like we should listen to the voices of the oppressed.
Yes, I do believe Israelis and Palestinians can get along, in a single state not dominated by either, but democratically by the people.
Pretending that opposing settler colonialism is somehow colonial, and that I should just watch Israel massacre children, is truly vile.
Rethink what you're saying. Either push for a one-state solution, propose a better alternative, or admit that you're fine with genocide and settler colonialism continuing. Right now, you've only fought against a one-state solution by saying different ethnic groups just can't get along, which is a colonial mindset.
Removed by mod
Well isn't that fucking rich, since Israel right now today is committing a genocide, a real, actual ethnicity-wiping-out, mass-child-murder genocide. I think we can go ahead and "play the blame game" there and blame Zionists for doing a bit worse than an oopsie. What makes you saying that even more tone deaf is that the Zionists are trying to victim-blame it on Palestinians! Maybe once everyone understands who really is to fucking blame here, it will make helping people today a lot more possible.
You are personally responsible for any ways in which you benefit from the continued oppression of a people whose stolen land many of them were murdered for that you continue to live on.
Why? You're asking why should you give back something your parents stole from people that are still asking for it back (the ones who survived anyway)? As for where you should "evacuate," you could probably just stay there in the post-occupation Palestine, it just wouldn't be an apartheid ethnostate, rather a state that doesn't deny the human rights of people by their ethnicity and religion and actually affords justice with equity, part of which includes returning land to those individual people and families it was stolen from. In fact if you're not in a house that literally belonged to a violently-evicted Palestinian family, or in a house that was built over the bulldozed ruins of homes of Palestinians, then you may be fine living exactly where you are right now. I know you have the settler-colonial mindset of being afraid of violent reprisal for the crimes your parents previously committed and your government currently is committing, but no, actually most people even after horrendous oppression don't feel the need or even desire to go on a killing spree of their oppressors. White settler South Africans were afraid of that too, but no, turns out oppressed people tend not to behave like violent settler colonists themselves did. If you were still afraid of that anyway, you could as you said, evacuate since from my understanding many western states would sponsor you to move there.
This is complete nonsense. I hope you read the rest of the thread, because this fact has been made clear. There is precedent for this.
Behold the brain damage of zionism, where only apartheid is possible.
What a barbaric and uncivilized philosophy.
Forget Israelis. Do you think any palestinian wants that?
Yes. Do you think there are no Palestinians who just want to live in peace? Do you think that desire is only felt by white people, perhaps?
Okay, let me rephrase... Do you think most Palestinians want that? I think the number of people who want that, both Israeli and Palestinian, is negligible. And I count myself among them.
Yes. I think most Palestinians want to live in peace. Unfortunately, Israel wants them to be dead or starving.
That's not what I asked. I asked if you think most Palestinians want to live in the same country under the same shared government as the Jewish population that lives here?
No, you didn't ask that. You're goal post moving.
Are you joking?
Me:
You:
Me:
Who's moving the goalposts? I think you're projecting.
The Palestinian Jews, Christians, and Muslisms seemed to be pretty okay with living together.
Then European Jews showed up and installed their own genocidal, apartheid ethnostate. Obviously that ethnostate—which is a political entity, distinct from the European Jews themselves—must go.
Why do you think you would have to leave if Israel were abolished?
It's because they're too racist to be willing to live as equals with Muslims and arabs.
Shhhh, gotta let them realize the contradictions of their own inner-biases
Why do you think whoever gains power in the aftermath would be any better than that?
Why do you think a new state being formed would be worse than the current genocidal settler colonial state slaughtering children for sport?
I never said what Israel's doing is remotely okay
I didn't ask you if it was or not. Why do you think a new state would be worse than the present genocidal settler-colonial state of Israel?
In order to be against a new one-state solution, you'd have to prove why you think the present situation is preferable, or that there aren't better alternatives.
As it stands, you are tacitly approving the genocide and settler-colonialism, even if you don't morally agree with it, which is why I am asking what your problem with a one-state solution is.
As I said, I don't have a problem with it. I literally said that's what I'd be happy with. I just don't see it as realistic.
Why not?
Because of gestures at everything maybe?
I'd really fucking love to stop oil companies from polluting our planet and making climate change worse by the day, but it's not realistic to shut them down tomorrow. Do I need to explain why that's not realistic either?
Vibes are truly the pinnacle of material geopolitical analysis.
You have no points, just vibes. Push for a one-state solution, come up with a meaningful alternative that is factually better, or admit that you're okay with the status quo of genocide and settler colonialism.
The mistrust between the Israeli population and the Palestinian population goes back decades. And here you come - an outsider, am I right? - to decide for us what the best solution is and to essentially "just get along". Do you have any idea what people in Palestine and Israel actually think, and actually feel? You're completely tone deaf. To decide as an outsider what we should be doing is rooted in exactly the same origins as colonialism - western powers think they can decide what the world should look like, and bend everyone to their will. Even if you think you're right, you're just tone deaf.
That's what Palestinians have been supporting though. The Israeli slaughter of Palestinians via genocide has indeed gone back 75 years, it sounds like we should listen to the voices of the oppressed.
Yes, I do believe Israelis and Palestinians can get along, in a single state not dominated by either, but democratically by the people.
Pretending that opposing settler colonialism is somehow colonial, and that I should just watch Israel massacre children, is truly vile.
Rethink what you're saying. Either push for a one-state solution, propose a better alternative, or admit that you're fine with genocide and settler colonialism continuing. Right now, you've only fought against a one-state solution by saying different ethnic groups just can't get along, which is a colonial mindset.