I'm part of a small group of Jr Self Taught Web Developers who were recently brainstorming ideas for a Group Project App we could put together and actually create a user base.
I offered up the suggestion of a podcast application which would have the major feature of being akin to YouTube Sponsor Block, but specifically for podcast episodes.
Essentially, a user contributed database of timestamps for podcast episodes where the mention of cutting to sponsored ads or mentions of sponsorships would be marked so they could be edited out of the episode and then the user could also download said episode where ads are cut out of the final audio file.
My idea was shot down due to fears of possibly infringing on copyright and we ended up with going with another idea. I'm certainly not upset, and am actually excited with the project idea we did choose, but it did get me wondering about whether this idea actually could have legal implications.
I know specifically with YouTube there appears to be a sort of legal loophole that prevents Google from suing projects like invidious, yt-dlp, and YouTube Sponsor Block, but am unaware of the specific details as to how this works.
Thusly, I just wanted to ask if anyone has any insights into whether this project idea would incur any legal infractions from the likes of IheartRadio and other media platforms?
To be clear, I'm not seeking legal advice here, and I'll be taking any responses with a grain of salt, but I just wanted to see if anyone knows anything on this subject and the legal concerns raised.
I very much dislike being advertised to and podcasts are one of the last bastions of media where advertisements still come up regularly and I'd love to make this application for those who are frustrated with how often they have to skip through sponsor mentions.
Thanks in advance.
edited out of the episode and then the user could also download said episode where ads are cut out of the final audio file
This is your problem, because you're redistributing someone else's work with the ads cut out, which isn't sufficiently transformative to qualify for fair use. Sponsorblock is allowed because it doesn't actually interfere with the video stream, it just tells your computer when to skip ahead using YouTube's already-existing playback features - your app should work the same way, integrating into an existing podcast platform and skipping forward based on crowdsourced timestamps, then the only thing you're providing are the timestamps, which don't violate copyright.
Great plan! Forking Antennapod would be a good idea I guess.
Also many youtube videos are 1:1 available as podcasts, using the sponsorblock db here would already help.
Retransmission of a podcast from your own server - no.
Cutting sponsored fragments on the end device - yes.
At least in most countries.
From what I understand, they're able to practically make custom audio files for every download. Sharing the time stamps wouldn't work that well. Re-distributing podcasts without the ads would definitely land you in legal trouble, cause every audio file is their "work of art".
Not a problem for ublock because you're editing their work of art for your personal use, and sharing unaltered stuff.
And youtube sponsor block is just sharing time stamps you might be interested in.
AI system that can recognize patterns and auto skip forward?
Maybe if you could distribute audio files (or hashes of audio files) that mark the start and stop of ads, that would solve the problem.
I guess podcasters could combat this by inserting random noise into their audio files, but they probably wouldn't do that.
They don’t need to add random noise, they just do what they already do and insert new advertising materials. Your static timestamps mean the ads and content end up at different locations.
I'm not suggesting static timestamps, but small audio files of the podcast about to enter, and just exited an ad.
The app could then search for the clips in the podcast to get the timestamp.
If there are copyright issues of sharing small clips, you can just save a hash of a clip, which will allow the app to find a match, but is not itself the Intelecual property of the podcaster; The hash cannot be turned back into the audio file. The hash would be smaller than the audio clip anyway, so sharing hashes would be better
That's an intriguing approach. Saving a hash of the clip instead of the timestamps MIGHT work. I'm still a bit worried about legal ramifications in that case.
Yeah, that's a problem. Dynamic length of targeted advertisement breaks would mean even a user generated database of timestamps wouldn't be that useful.
Yes, using a trained AI model that recognizes ad segments could be possible for this, albeit expensive due to the cost of GPUs on a VPS.
Definitely. Though posting this did help me think through the logistics of the problem itself, so I'm glad I did! Thanks for the good advice.
I know nothing of the implications of developing what you’re proposing, but I 1000% support it and would actually start listening to podcasts again if it ever came to fruition and I could use it.
Other answer seems to suggest that the problem is that the same podcast can be available, depending on where and who is listening to it, with different length due to different ads injected into. Here's my probably stupid and completely ignorant suggestion: instead of using timestamps for both begin and end of the ads segment, you could use a timestamp for the beginning, and an hash of the first part of "non-ads" segment. I'll try to explain better:
|----------------xxxxx--------------------| ^ |___|The xxx is the ads segment, the
^is the timestamp of the beginning of the ads, the|___|is a small duration segment (for example, 0.5 seconds) right after the ads segment. The data of that segment is hashed and used as "end ads segment indicator".On the other device, with a different duration of the ads, you should start hashing it to find the corresponding segment.
Is this doable or did I just said a bunch of idiot things?
Possibly doable, and definitely not a bunch of idiot things.
The beginning of the FIRST ad certainly does start at a consistent point during the podcast episode, but due to the dynamic nature of the injected targeted ads afterwards, the remaining timestamps for the beginning of the subsequent ads would be different. The hash of the audio file was suggested by another helpful person earlier, and it has piqued my interest, though it's implementation, at least as I conceive of it currently, would be rather clunky, as it would require an ad free version of the audio file to compare it against, as well as a way (possibly a hash or some sort of audio recognition software, or AI trained to recognize ads, effectively acting as audio recognition software), to recognize exactly when the ads started and stopped by comparing the ad free version second by second to the ad-injected version.
Additionally, because re-distribution of said audio files would definitely land me in legal trouble, I'd have to dynamically generate those timestamps and send it to you while you received the audio file from the official distributor, all to be edited on your device upon arrival.
I'm still very much a noob at programming and webdev, so this is definitely something that is probably a few years down the line in the making as I continue to upskill, but it's good to think about as I would like to produce this if at all feasible (and won't land me in legal trouble or hurdles, I'd like this to be akin to Invidious and Sponsorblock if possible).
Thanks for the suggestion! You definitely got me thinking hard on this problem and its potential solutions.
Seems like time-shifting (VCRs, Tivo) is protected, but I agree with advice to consult a lawyer.
