I was looking at an old thread about "patsocs" and I saw the following comment, which I believe to be true - I have written this in a rush so sorry for any mistakes. EDIT: I was asked what the question was, so tl;dr it would be: is the threat of patsoc, particularly the "MAGA communism" development a significant threat beyond the terminally online proponents. I'll add that to the beginning of the post.

The comment: 'The CIA is probably going to use patsocs to infiltrate marxist groups and distract the public.

Marxist parties in the U.S should hopefully start banning them soon.'

The problem is that I have seen self-proclaimed "Marxist-Leninist" parties and groups which they (the intelligence apparatus, allegedly) control from the country I live in (one of the nations of the "UK" but we'll say "Britain" for the sake of argument) actually start to embrace and promote the ridiculous "MAGA communist" movement (if it can truly be called such at this point) which I have only discovered in recent months, and I couldn't wrap my head around it nor see it as being anything more niche than I was led to believe when I made enquiries with comrades in the USA about it on Twitter before I left the platform. After observing groups in recent days - mainly on Telegram which I use mainly for news on Palestine and other resistance movements but also speak to a small number of comrades, plus friends in countries where they cannot communicate on social media platforms in the west. I replied to a comment on the thread I mentioned and feel that it may be worth discussing the phenomenon of "MAGA communism". Perhaps comrades here will disagree and see it still as the terminally online "movement" it has been but the comment I quoted at the start of this thread made me feel that it is more serious than previously thought - this came to me especially when I saw the "Marxist Leninist" party in Britain I mentioned jump on the bandwagon of "MAGA communism" in a truly grotesque, opportunist fashion which seems to give credence to the notion that various intelligence agencies will utilise patsoc movements in order to infiltrate Marxist groups and distract the public as mentioned in the aforementioned quote but I also believe that intelligence agencies may promote these dangerous, poisonous ideas to not only distort and discredit Marxists and communists generally but also to manufacture a movement which goes offline and could present actual, tangible and material danger to the masses by ultimately serving the ruling class and doing so in a violent manner informed by their reactionary, crypto-fascist beliefs, creating an issue which must be condemned by communists as it seems to have been ignored. Below is a reply I left in that thread and so sorry for any repetitions of this preface but I feel that a serious discussion is warranted on what could potentially develop into a dangerous, full on fascist movement and should be taken seriously.

I believe that we are witnessing the development of a movement: "MAGA communism" which could not only aid in discrediting communist theory but also the development of class consciousness in the USA in particular*, given the significant emergence of proletarians in the USA discovering Marxist/Marxist-Leninist theory over the last ten years or so in a country where anti-communism has been so prevalent at every level of the ideological state apparatus that Marxist theory and practice has essentially been denied to the proletariat. Of course this is true in all bourgeois states but the USA as the reigning imperialist bloc has perhaps been the most rabid in its anti-communism, with the Red Scare, the blacklisting, COINTELPRO and other operations, to the point at which "socialism" and "communism" became the dirtiest of words to the masses of the oppressed class to which the revolutionary, scientific theory and practice of Marxism-Leninism was developed for in terms of liberating the masses from the very mode of production which oppresses them. The economic devastation left by neoliberal reforms as well as evolution in modes of communication (i.e. the internet) have led people to seek theories which address the material conditions in which entire generations have seen the promised ideals of "prosperity for all" for what they are and class consciousness has developed significantly as a result of these factors.

*In Britain for example, there was a socialist current throughout the 20th century - a labour movement, largely dominated by the labour aristocracy who are descendants of the betrayers of revolutionary struggle by the Second International, although Marxist-Leninists occupied significant spaces within the unions and many Trotskyists, via their tactic of entryism, existed within the Labour Party, right up until the Labour Party essentially purged the left from the party leading up to election of Labour under Tony Blair (who ultimately adopted a continuity of the neoliberal reforms put into place under Thatcher's regime - our Reagan - destroying any pretence of "socialism" within the "Labour" Party). The point really is that "socialism" was not a dirty word in Britain in the same way as in the USA and I believe that this is due to how the labour movement within the USA evolved largely outside of the European movement, ultimately betrayed by the Second International of course, but this is in no way being said to discredit the achievements and tireless struggle of comrades in the USA who have internally struggled against the bourgeoisie and its domestic oppression as well as its emergence as the most powerful imperialist bloc in the age of imperialism.

These patsoc types seem to have made more significant moves into spaces outside of their cultish beginnings. For example, not being from the USA, “MAGA communism” only became apparent to me recently, which was truly baffling before I looked into information on patsoc on Prolewiki, and I joined Lemmygrad because I was so frustrated with seeing “communist” channels on Telegram, for example, allowing this kind of shit and seeing one supposedly “ML” party from the UK (which as an aside I believe to be run by spooks) embrace the “ideology” and to essentially jump on the bandwagon in a truly grotesque, opportunistic move in a desire to be relevant and perhaps gain some new members. I can’t see any other justification for their actions. They make the excuse that the “MAGA” movement contains proletarian elements, which is true, but this is territory similar to suggesting that the “national socialists” contained proletarian elements, or the Union of Fascists of Britain and we saw how that played out. I reminded them that Stalin saw the “national socialists” for what they were before WW2 started, as did most communists I am sure, and also that one of the most significant moments in the history of the proletariat/labour movement in 20th century England was the Battle of Cable Street, in which antifascists and ordinary members of the public came together to beat the shit out of Oswald Mosley’s brownshirt thugs. Antifascism has been a longstanding current in Britain generally, and to see what is essentially a fascist movement being supported by “Marxist-Leninists” in this country is a disgrace and should be violently opposed as all fascist movements should be.

But my main point is that they seemed to have spread. I was fooled into entering spaces before I realised that these movements were so significant. I have seen people discuss them as terminally online but the attempted “synthesis” (again, truly grotesque: apologies to Marx, Lenin and of course Hegel) of the Cult of Maga with “communism” is a potential danger which cannot be slept on. MAGA fascists were highly visible during the Trump era and beyond and helped to bring fascists out of the woodworks. It could well be that the “MAGA communists” do the same.

It seems to me that the whole thing is a psyop designed to discredit communist theory and “communists”, given the significant emergence of proletarians in the USA discovering Marxist/Marxist-Leninist theory over the last ten to fifteen years or so. But I do believe that it has the potential to become a more significant threat to being a mere online cult of wackos that are likely being manipulated by some kind of COINTELPRO style psyop into accepting distorted ideas about communism in order to discredit them and to turn "communism" into a dirty word again.

It should be noted that I haven’t seen these people defend Israel but they do focus much energy on the proxy war in Ukraine and this was in part why I started to pay attention to some of the articles they put out, coming from places like The Grayzone initially, but they hardly seem to talk about Palestine at all, which is of course an international emergency requiring the attention of communists around the world as I write this. Also, my only exposure to this is via channels which proclaim to be “communist” but are indeed “patsocs” and who, in these channels, “defend” and promote “MAGA communism”, as I said, to the point that a self-proclaimed “Marxist-Leninist” party in my country jumping on this bandwagon (they are a very small party and are highly reactionary, especially on issues such as trans issues, but they claim to uphold an anti-revisionist line, yet are apparently funded by the state apparatus and I hear this from an old comrade who is approaching 90 and has heard and seen it all before. This party split from the original ML party of the Comintern due to revisionism in the main body of the party, which does have serious problems in itself. Anyway I am rambling).