Hellworld has a weird blend of hedonism and puritanism where any bazinga that wants to make porn of someone now has machine assistance to do so, and that porn can be convincing enough to be presented as forged revenge porn to wreck careers, reputations, and even lives because the burden is on the pornified subject.
But treat defenders want those treats cheap and now and many, including here, have an open contempt, even hatred, of artists as seen in this thread. The deepfake revenge porn potential barely registers to them at all because (for the moment) it doesn't affect them.
I don't know who else is making this argument, but I do think it is a reasonable thing to expect this trend to continue regardless of specific technological developments.
This is completely consistent with a historical material analysis. Imagine thinking you'd prevent porn by erasing Photoshop and Windows Media Player from existence. Heck the first porn video? You'd have to go back right to the creation of video itself.
The internet would have developed regardless. Artists would have found ways to promote the sexual tendencies of the prevaling culture regardless.
Of course it doesn't mean fighting for moral beliefs is wrong either. It goes without saying it is ok to fight for the world we believe in. We can make a difference here and there sometimes. But at the same time we have to be realistic about the outcomes.
Unfortunately imo the left discourse over AI art will be completely ineffectual. The real way to regulate it doesn't even begin to tackle the real problem. Legislation over plagiariazing copyrighted content? Sure it will help the artists so it is a good thing, but it wont stop the tech.
You can make it illegal all you want, someone will make a github project, worst case scenario a MEGA or torrent link and share the program anyway. It doesn't matter how many liberal institutions and how many laws are passed against it. And you know from a PR/corporate standpoint it is never going to be as toxic as child porn or as threatening as copyright law given AI will be a benefit to capitalists. So the chances of it ever getting banned are near zero.
You mention deepfakes as a problem and yet Hollywood already adopted it and profited from it, it is one of the best examples of modern tech adoption, going from niche YT videos to extreme mainstream use in a few years. How can you ever hope of fighting this now? It is all going to be moral outrage into a vacuum.
I picture it like that Blizzard shit take "dont you guys have phones" when trying to defend a mobile game. This time it would be a Hollywood executive, you ask him "you know deepfakes are used for illegal porn right" and he will answer "but don't you guys want to see young Harrison Ford as Han Solo again?"
Unless we go fight the real source of the problem it is pretty clear this wont change anything. You can even try and win a few battles e.g stop plagiarizing from artists, but it wont stop the trend or the tech.
I'd rather do something and try something than say "this is tech it is inevitable" and ignore the years or decades that might otherwise have more mitigated harm from the technology and the society using it simply going where it will and doing whatever people want to do with it.
Was global thermonuclear nuclear war inevitable (so far) just because the technology came into being? Trends of nuclear escalation seemed inevitable but (so far) have not lead to a global exchange of that technology.
To summarize, I see your point but I refuse to just nod along to technological fatalism when even a few people could be harmed a little less and society adjusted for the better in the meantime.
You're just slapping the word "materialism" on what you already wanted and where you already stand, crudely summarizing an entire library of theory in your favor. Come on, at the least spare me the "your arguments are emotional, mine are made of pure logic" claptrap if you're going to go there at all.
My response to your :reddit-logo: tier putdown was just garbage out for your garbage in.
weird how this topic immediately makes people abandon materialism completely and jump straight to idealism and emotional reasoning
There's nothing there in your "case" as presented for me to respond meaningfully to. You provided only self-congratulation followed by insults.
You lamented the lack of Materialism(tm) (as in, implied agreement with you without any actual case made) without any presented substance, just a word drop and :expert-shapiro: style hostility toward your perceived opponents. You have facts, they have feelings. You are holding the Materialism(tm) totem because you say so, they are creatures of mere idealism and emotions. Fap fap fap fap fap fap.
i merely pointed out the idealistic nature of your arguments, because I can tell from looking elsewhere that making a whole case to you is pointless -- you literally just got done saying that you don't care if there's no way to stop or even mitigate the technology from being used. There is literally nothing else to do but dunk on you.
This isn't the first topic where people are like this, and I am sure it will not be the last, so why shouldn't I be efficient about it? Very strange how every topic where people behave like this is linked to sex in some way, though.
because I can tell from looking elsewhere that making a whole case to you is pointless
:expert-shapiro:
I find your particular understanding of what you think materialism is to be reductionist to the point of being reactionary, elsewhere in this thread. If I wanted to, I could extrapolate further on your "living thinking human beings have no intrinsic worth beyond the machines putting them out of work" and frankly ask you what is the point of workers of the world uniting against the bourgeoisie in the first place if you're doing a crude reductionist take on the human brain versus data collection and reprocessing programs. If the machines are humming along and the mere meat-sacks are brushed aside, all should be well, by that reductionist take that ignores who owns the machines, the means of production, the "AI" itself, and who is pushed further into precarity and who receives and profits from all of that dubiously acquired data.
But I won't. You came here to sneer and condescend to people you see as inferior to you. Contempt for emotions is still an emotional response, by the way.
Very strange how every topic where people behave like this is linked to sex in some way, though.
It's even more "strange" as you put it just how much your favored side of this thread is selectively ignoring or dismissing the relevant and real sex-related issues of the technology (and that the entire point of the OP was about sex abuse applications of it). Revenge porn is real and affects real people, same with deepfakes. The selective ignoring or outright contempt of human suffering isn't Materialism(tm) except in the coarsest, crudest, and most selfish reading of it.
why shouldn’t I be efficient about it
Sure, and I in turn could provide all the "efficiency" that you and your Emotionless Rational Human Machine of Pure Materialist Logic LARP deserves and just efficiently post "fapfapfapfapfapfapfap" to reflect what you've done here so far in any further replies to me here.
Hellworld has a weird blend of hedonism and puritanism where any bazinga that wants to make porn of someone now has machine assistance to do so, and that porn can be convincing enough to be presented as forged revenge porn to wreck careers, reputations, and even lives because the burden is on the pornified subject.
And a terrible bonus: it doesn't even have to be that convincing if you know the person making the call wants them gone
Exactly.
But treat defenders want those treats cheap and now and many, including here, have an open contempt, even hatred, of artists as seen in this thread. The deepfake revenge porn potential barely registers to them at all because (for the moment) it doesn't affect them.
I don't know who else is making this argument, but I do think it is a reasonable thing to expect this trend to continue regardless of specific technological developments.
This is completely consistent with a historical material analysis. Imagine thinking you'd prevent porn by erasing Photoshop and Windows Media Player from existence. Heck the first porn video? You'd have to go back right to the creation of video itself.
The internet would have developed regardless. Artists would have found ways to promote the sexual tendencies of the prevaling culture regardless.
Of course it doesn't mean fighting for moral beliefs is wrong either. It goes without saying it is ok to fight for the world we believe in. We can make a difference here and there sometimes. But at the same time we have to be realistic about the outcomes.
Unfortunately imo the left discourse over AI art will be completely ineffectual. The real way to regulate it doesn't even begin to tackle the real problem. Legislation over plagiariazing copyrighted content? Sure it will help the artists so it is a good thing, but it wont stop the tech.
You can make it illegal all you want, someone will make a github project, worst case scenario a MEGA or torrent link and share the program anyway. It doesn't matter how many liberal institutions and how many laws are passed against it. And you know from a PR/corporate standpoint it is never going to be as toxic as child porn or as threatening as copyright law given AI will be a benefit to capitalists. So the chances of it ever getting banned are near zero.
You mention deepfakes as a problem and yet Hollywood already adopted it and profited from it, it is one of the best examples of modern tech adoption, going from niche YT videos to extreme mainstream use in a few years. How can you ever hope of fighting this now? It is all going to be moral outrage into a vacuum.
I picture it like that Blizzard shit take "dont you guys have phones" when trying to defend a mobile game. This time it would be a Hollywood executive, you ask him "you know deepfakes are used for illegal porn right" and he will answer "but don't you guys want to see young Harrison Ford as Han Solo again?"
Unless we go fight the real source of the problem it is pretty clear this wont change anything. You can even try and win a few battles e.g stop plagiarizing from artists, but it wont stop the trend or the tech.
I'd rather do something and try something than say "this is tech it is inevitable" and ignore the years or decades that might otherwise have more mitigated harm from the technology and the society using it simply going where it will and doing whatever people want to do with it.
Was global thermonuclear nuclear war inevitable (so far) just because the technology came into being? Trends of nuclear escalation seemed inevitable but (so far) have not lead to a global exchange of that technology.
To summarize, I see your point but I refuse to just nod along to technological fatalism when even a few people could be harmed a little less and society adjusted for the better in the meantime.
weird how this topic immediately makes people abandon materialism completely and jump straight to idealism and emotional reasoning
You're just slapping the word "materialism" on what you already wanted and where you already stand, crudely summarizing an entire library of theory in your favor. Come on, at the least spare me the "your arguments are emotional, mine are made of pure logic" claptrap if you're going to go there at all.
you really are not helping your case with this response
My response to your :reddit-logo: tier putdown was just garbage out for your garbage in.
There's nothing there in your "case" as presented for me to respond meaningfully to. You provided only self-congratulation followed by insults.
You lamented the lack of Materialism(tm) (as in, implied agreement with you without any actual case made) without any presented substance, just a word drop and :expert-shapiro: style hostility toward your perceived opponents. You have facts, they have feelings. You are holding the Materialism(tm) totem because you say so, they are creatures of mere idealism and emotions. Fap fap fap fap fap fap.
i merely pointed out the idealistic nature of your arguments, because I can tell from looking elsewhere that making a whole case to you is pointless -- you literally just got done saying that you don't care if there's no way to stop or even mitigate the technology from being used. There is literally nothing else to do but dunk on you.
This isn't the first topic where people are like this, and I am sure it will not be the last, so why shouldn't I be efficient about it? Very strange how every topic where people behave like this is linked to sex in some way, though.
:expert-shapiro:
I find your particular understanding of what you think materialism is to be reductionist to the point of being reactionary, elsewhere in this thread. If I wanted to, I could extrapolate further on your "living thinking human beings have no intrinsic worth beyond the machines putting them out of work" and frankly ask you what is the point of workers of the world uniting against the bourgeoisie in the first place if you're doing a crude reductionist take on the human brain versus data collection and reprocessing programs. If the machines are humming along and the mere meat-sacks are brushed aside, all should be well, by that reductionist take that ignores who owns the machines, the means of production, the "AI" itself, and who is pushed further into precarity and who receives and profits from all of that dubiously acquired data.
But I won't. You came here to sneer and condescend to people you see as inferior to you. Contempt for emotions is still an emotional response, by the way.
It's even more "strange" as you put it just how much your favored side of this thread is selectively ignoring or dismissing the relevant and real sex-related issues of the technology (and that the entire point of the OP was about sex abuse applications of it). Revenge porn is real and affects real people, same with deepfakes. The selective ignoring or outright contempt of human suffering isn't Materialism(tm) except in the coarsest, crudest, and most selfish reading of it.
Sure, and I in turn could provide all the "efficiency" that you and your Emotionless Rational Human Machine of Pure Materialist Logic LARP deserves and just efficiently post "fapfapfapfapfapfapfap" to reflect what you've done here so far in any further replies to me here.