Being against actual therapy would be an anti-science position to take. Being against a drug being used to paper over psychological damage brutal capitalist exploitation creates is not. Hope that helps clear things up for you.
Its not like therapy is only good for the ales of capitalism, And it's not like people don't need therapy from communism.
I remember when foxconn was having a string of suicides from their roof, and their solution was to put up a net. That is what I would describe as "papering over the problem"
And I explicitly said that there's nothing wrong with therapy of itself. Meanwhile, Foxconn is a Taiwanese capitalist company last I checked. Not sure what that has to do with communism in your mind.
Nope, that's just a straw man you're making because you don't have any actual counterpoint. What I'm actually saying is that mental health problems caused by capitalism should be treated by dealing with capitalist exploitation that causes these problems instead of papering over them using drugs. Evidently this is too complex a concept for you to comprehend, so only thing you can do is bleat about communism while providing further examples of capitalist exploitation like Foxconn.
Obviously capitalism has problems, and obviously fixing them would help. But its not like depression would end. And its not like people in China arnt depressed and if psychedelic therapy was used there to help people, I don't think you would be shittalking it. The foxconn factory I'm talking about is in shenzen, so why don't you advocate for psychedelic therapy there? Clearly the horrors of capitalism are also ravishing China, so do they not benefit from psychedelics?
Nobody is arguing that depression would end. Again, this is just the straw man you keep trotting out here. Try engaging with what's actually being said for a change.
Im legitimately trying to understand why you think psychedelic therapy is bad...
you say its papering over the root cause of mental illness, while simultaneously acknowledging that removing the so called "root cause" would still leave a need for it. so why then is it not a good thing? why is the title of your post not: "psycadelic therapy helps americans, its time to bring it to china!"
It seems obvious your prerogative is to shittalk everything done in the US while papering over the same exact issues in china.
I don't think that psychedelic therapy is bad, and I've repeatedly stated this throughout the conversation. Please actually read what I wrote, and then reply to the points I actually made. Thank you.
The actual point, that I've repeated in many different ways here, is that problems caused by capitalist exploitation need to be addressed instead of being papered over. Why is it so hard for you to engage with the point being made?
People in China suffering from psychological problems would benefit from therapy the same way any other people suffering from similar problems would benefit. This should be obvious to anybody with a functioning brain. The fact that you felt the need to ask the question is quite strange to be honest.
Meanwhile, as I've repeatedly explained, whether using therapy is papering over anything or not is a question of whether the underlying cause of mental problems could be addressed instead or not. Let me know if you're still struggling with understanding this.
I believe that using therapy instead of treating underlying causes amounts to papering over those causes. The location is utterly irrelevant to the point I'm making. I'm guessing China lives rent free in your head, and you're evidently unable to form a thought independent of the word China.
I just want to expose your BS propaganda headlines for what they are. You frame everything as a failing of america, when in this case having KAP is a sign of progress for america. And not having it is a sign of failure from China. You say papering over underlying problems is a bad thing, but when I mention the mental issues of the tibetans and the uyghurs you jump at the opportunity to paper over their plight by saying their lives get better ever year. When I mention the foxconn workers in China, you paper over it by saying its taiwans fault.
You claim to support psychedelic therapy but where is your post that praises it? Where is your post that suggests it be brought to China? The fact of the matter is that you don't care about the welfare of depressed people, you just want to make shitposts about how bad america is.
If you mean you want to make a clown of yourself by making an incoherent argument that has nothing to do with what I say, then you're doing a fantastic job of that!
My post wasn't about support for or against psychedelic therapy, that's just a hamfisted straw man you keep trying to build. What I was talking about is how people are drugged up so they can put up with capitalist exploitation. It's really adorable how you think you're being very clever here while making a transparently idiotic attempt at an argument. Do better.
How do you know that psychedelic therapy papers over anything?
If you knew anything about it, you would know that its exactly the type of thing that would open people minds to the reality of capitalist exploitation.
But it is obvious you don't care about depression or therapy and are just looking for bullshit to feed your fellow commies
How do you know that psychedelic therapy papers over anything?
If you don't understand how poor work environment and being overworked causes mental problems, then you should educate yourself instead of clowning around here.
If you knew anything about it, you would know that its exactly the type of thing that would open people minds to the reality of capitalist exploitation.
Being a pampered little brat this may come as a shock to you, but being exploited is what opens up people's minds to the reality of capitalist exploitation.
But it is obvious you don’t care about depression or therapy and are just looking for bullshit to feed your fellow commies
Ah back to your straw man since you don't have an actual argument to make. I love how predictable you are.
I haven't deflected any of your points, but I guess we've already established that you just keep lying here instead of engaging in honest discussion.
Cool, then we just don’t do anything and the problem solves itself. Great thinking!
US becoming increasingly polarized and politically unstable, so yeah problem is solving itself. Eventually this shithole of a country will implode on itself and the rest of the world will finally be able to breathe.
How do you know that psychedelic therapy papers over anything?
That's literally the concept of using any form of therapy to deal with work related stess. Solving the issue involves changing your work conditions and removing the source of stress, while using mindfulness and medication is just a sticking plaster to numb yourself to the cause.
You're trying to use the socratic method but you need to ask questions that aren't fucking stupid for that to work.
People go to therapy for non-work-related reasons.
Eliminating capitalism will not remove the need for therapy.
The whole point of therapy is to help you deal with your life, and Its obvious you're prejudiced against therapy altogether. I swear, you commies would be against clean drinking water if it was an american policy.
Am I really going to have to argue with some stupid loser who has to reframe things without the context I specifically included so their argument makes sense? Nobody goes to therapy for work related stress for non work related reasons you fucking dweeb. Go sit on the shitter and look at the backs of shampoo bottles until you learn to read.
Yogthos was insinuating that people in the perfect country of china don't need therapy, (and continued to do so in the reply) so I pointed out several cultures that are being genocided in china, suggesting that they could use therapy.
There are zero “cultures that are being genocided” in China. Tibetans were under serfdom and brutal theocracy before liberation by the PLA, and since have seen a rise in living standards in addition to preservation of culture. For Uyghurs, China responded to US-backed terror with educational facilities and yet Uyghur culture is propped up and praised by the CPC in media in addition to representation in communities.
Lol the Chinese government kidnapped and imprisoned-for-life a six-year-old kid because he was the next tibeten spiritual leader!
And it was to free them from serfdom? Surprise! China is a serfdom! That is the dumbest excuse in the world! It was because the head waters of their rivers are there... Saying it was a liberation is just propaganda.
And the Uyghur reeducation centers are just like the jewish reeducation centers the nazis setup in Poland.
You will overlook genocide to turn your nose up at therapy.
Holy nonsense. The same Dalai Lama (THE Tibetan spiritual leader) has been alive since the liberation of Tibet, you don’t even know what you’re conveying. Also how can you say the child was imprisoned for life when we don’t know his whereabouts? His naming as the Panchen Lama was outside of customs and China may have taken him out of the situation so he couldn’t be exploited.
Thanks for admitting you were being dishonest about his condition. China is not a dictatorship. You have no idea how their system works. There are committee elections at all levels where delegates are selected by the people (with tiers leading to the NPC), and the CPC (~1 in 10 eligible as members) leadership is determined by democratic centralism with elections at party committees and congresses up to the Central Committee.
I'm not denying the holocaust, your denying another genocide!
It's not a genocide. Not only has nobody been killed (except by the US-backed terror attacks), Uyghur culture is uplifted in the media and on the ground. People have to rely on the shoddy research [1] [2] of a bigoted Christian nationalist that works for a US government foundation started by Nazi collaborators (Zenz), awful reports by the BBC where they are let into education facilities and openly distort information, and numerous NED-funded orgs or MIC thinktanks whose evidence amounts to nothing.
Regarding the former, Adrian Zenz and James Mulvenon (former member of the U.S. state adjacent Council on Foreign Relations and member of the National Committee on United States - China Relations, which along with the Defense Group Inc.—of which he is vice-president–provides military policy planning and assessments to the United States Government) affirmed some anonymously leaked ICIJ “China Cable” Documents, one of which is a top-secret telegram which the ICIJ describes as:
“...from the Communist Party commission in charge of Xinjiang’s security apparatus. The telegram, written in Chinese, is an operations manual for running the mass detention camps. It is marked ‘secret’ and was approved by Zhu Hailun, then deputy secretary of Xinjiang’s Communist Party and the region’s top security official.”
Clearly what we have here is a document meant for only the highest levels of the bureaucracy, one which will divulge the actual thought process and rationale behind re-education policy, and cannot be construed as propaganda.
The document begins with a set of guidelines for running the facilities. First is “[to] ensure that the training venue is absolutely safe].” The guidelines follow:
“It is strictly forbidden for police to enter the student zone with guns, and they must never allow escapes, never allow trouble… never allow food safety incidents and major epidemics, and they must ensure the training center is safe and free of risk”
"Through letter writing, phone calls, video chats, visits, meetings, etc., establish a mechanism for students and relatives to interact with each other, to that the ensure students will have a phone conversation with their relatives at least once a month, to make their family feel at ease and the students feel safe."
"...every effort should be made to fix employment work for completed graduates to ensure the smooth development of students with employment aspirations. For those who don't have the ability to work and have difficulties in life, it is necessary to coordinate grassroots organizations to seriously carry out assistance and relief work, and effectively solve practical difficulties."
There are further notes on strict time management, preventing earthquakes and fires, and also measures to surveil all areas. These seem comparable to prisons, which is in line with the highest facilities being reserved for radicalized terrorists (bulletin No. 20 deals with those spreading violent propaganda / those who have joined terrorist organizations). When considering that the United States promoted terrorist radicalization in Xinjiang, such things lose isolation. The document outlines a very strict process, but one not mentioning forced anti-religious practices such as consuming pork or alcohol [The Independent 29 May 2018], organ harvesting [Falun Gong cult allegations], forced labor [U.S. Dept. of Labor], or physical abuse/torture (again, we cannot make a case of propaganda, because these are again purportedly top-secret documents).
Being against actual therapy would be an anti-science position to take. Being against a drug being used to paper over psychological damage brutal capitalist exploitation creates is not. Hope that helps clear things up for you.
Its not like therapy is only good for the ales of capitalism, And it's not like people don't need therapy from communism.
I remember when foxconn was having a string of suicides from their roof, and their solution was to put up a net. That is what I would describe as "papering over the problem"
And I explicitly said that there's nothing wrong with therapy of itself. Meanwhile, Foxconn is a Taiwanese capitalist company last I checked. Not sure what that has to do with communism in your mind.
Well maybe the tibetans or the uyghurs could probably use some therapy then
Ah yes, they need all that therapy from their lives improving each and every year. You make an excellent point kiddo.
You're unironically saying that only people in capitalist countries need therapy and people under communism simply don't get depressed?
Nope, that's just a straw man you're making because you don't have any actual counterpoint. What I'm actually saying is that mental health problems caused by capitalism should be treated by dealing with capitalist exploitation that causes these problems instead of papering over them using drugs. Evidently this is too complex a concept for you to comprehend, so only thing you can do is bleat about communism while providing further examples of capitalist exploitation like Foxconn.
Obviously capitalism has problems, and obviously fixing them would help. But its not like depression would end. And its not like people in China arnt depressed and if psychedelic therapy was used there to help people, I don't think you would be shittalking it. The foxconn factory I'm talking about is in shenzen, so why don't you advocate for psychedelic therapy there? Clearly the horrors of capitalism are also ravishing China, so do they not benefit from psychedelics?
Nobody is arguing that depression would end. Again, this is just the straw man you keep trotting out here. Try engaging with what's actually being said for a change.
Im legitimately trying to understand why you think psychedelic therapy is bad...
you say its papering over the root cause of mental illness, while simultaneously acknowledging that removing the so called "root cause" would still leave a need for it. so why then is it not a good thing? why is the title of your post not: "psycadelic therapy helps americans, its time to bring it to china!"
It seems obvious your prerogative is to shittalk everything done in the US while papering over the same exact issues in china.
I don't think that psychedelic therapy is bad, and I've repeatedly stated this throughout the conversation. Please actually read what I wrote, and then reply to the points I actually made. Thank you.
OK so psychedelic therapy is good, its just evidence that america is bad?
The actual point, that I've repeated in many different ways here, is that problems caused by capitalist exploitation need to be addressed instead of being papered over. Why is it so hard for you to engage with the point being made?
So would the Chinese people be better off with psychedelic therapy?
And if so would that be papering over anything?
People in China suffering from psychological problems would benefit from therapy the same way any other people suffering from similar problems would benefit. This should be obvious to anybody with a functioning brain. The fact that you felt the need to ask the question is quite strange to be honest.
Meanwhile, as I've repeatedly explained, whether using therapy is papering over anything or not is a question of whether the underlying cause of mental problems could be addressed instead or not. Let me know if you're still struggling with understanding this.
OK, so you then believe that psycadelic therapy in China would be papering over the underlying causes of their depression?
I believe that using therapy instead of treating underlying causes amounts to papering over those causes. The location is utterly irrelevant to the point I'm making. I'm guessing China lives rent free in your head, and you're evidently unable to form a thought independent of the word China.
I just want to expose your BS propaganda headlines for what they are. You frame everything as a failing of america, when in this case having KAP is a sign of progress for america. And not having it is a sign of failure from China. You say papering over underlying problems is a bad thing, but when I mention the mental issues of the tibetans and the uyghurs you jump at the opportunity to paper over their plight by saying their lives get better ever year. When I mention the foxconn workers in China, you paper over it by saying its taiwans fault.
You claim to support psychedelic therapy but where is your post that praises it? Where is your post that suggests it be brought to China? The fact of the matter is that you don't care about the welfare of depressed people, you just want to make shitposts about how bad america is.
If you mean you want to make a clown of yourself by making an incoherent argument that has nothing to do with what I say, then you're doing a fantastic job of that!
My post wasn't about support for or against psychedelic therapy, that's just a hamfisted straw man you keep trying to build. What I was talking about is how people are drugged up so they can put up with capitalist exploitation. It's really adorable how you think you're being very clever here while making a transparently idiotic attempt at an argument. Do better.
How do you know that psychedelic therapy papers over anything?
If you knew anything about it, you would know that its exactly the type of thing that would open people minds to the reality of capitalist exploitation.
But it is obvious you don't care about depression or therapy and are just looking for bullshit to feed your fellow commies
If you don't understand how poor work environment and being overworked causes mental problems, then you should educate yourself instead of clowning around here.
Being a pampered little brat this may come as a shock to you, but being exploited is what opens up people's minds to the reality of capitalist exploitation.
Ah back to your straw man since you don't have an actual argument to make. I love how predictable you are.
Good job deflecting on every one of my points
Cool, then we just don't do anything and the problem solves itself. Great thinking!
I haven't deflected any of your points, but I guess we've already established that you just keep lying here instead of engaging in honest discussion.
US becoming increasingly polarized and politically unstable, so yeah problem is solving itself. Eventually this shithole of a country will implode on itself and the rest of the world will finally be able to breathe.
That's literally the concept of using any form of therapy to deal with work related stess. Solving the issue involves changing your work conditions and removing the source of stress, while using mindfulness and medication is just a sticking plaster to numb yourself to the cause.
You're trying to use the socratic method but you need to ask questions that aren't fucking stupid for that to work.
People go to therapy for non-work-related reasons.
Eliminating capitalism will not remove the need for therapy.
The whole point of therapy is to help you deal with your life, and Its obvious you're prejudiced against therapy altogether. I swear, you commies would be against clean drinking water if it was an american policy.
Am I really going to have to argue with some stupid loser who has to reframe things without the context I specifically included so their argument makes sense? Nobody goes to therapy for work related stress for non work related reasons you fucking dweeb. Go sit on the shitter and look at the backs of shampoo bottles until you learn to read.
What do you mean by this?
Yogthos was insinuating that people in the perfect country of china don't need therapy, (and continued to do so in the reply) so I pointed out several cultures that are being genocided in china, suggesting that they could use therapy.
There are zero “cultures that are being genocided” in China. Tibetans were under serfdom and brutal theocracy before liberation by the PLA, and since have seen a rise in living standards in addition to preservation of culture. For Uyghurs, China responded to US-backed terror with educational facilities and yet Uyghur culture is propped up and praised by the CPC in media in addition to representation in communities.
Lol the Chinese government kidnapped and imprisoned-for-life a six-year-old kid because he was the next tibeten spiritual leader!
And it was to free them from serfdom? Surprise! China is a serfdom! That is the dumbest excuse in the world! It was because the head waters of their rivers are there... Saying it was a liberation is just propaganda.
And the Uyghur reeducation centers are just like the jewish reeducation centers the nazis setup in Poland.
You will overlook genocide to turn your nose up at therapy.
Holy nonsense. The same Dalai Lama (THE Tibetan spiritual leader) has been alive since the liberation of Tibet, you don’t even know what you’re conveying. Also how can you say the child was imprisoned for life when we don’t know his whereabouts? His naming as the Panchen Lama was outside of customs and China may have taken him out of the situation so he couldn’t be exploited.
And that comparison is Holocaust denialist slop.
Yeah, they "saved him and he's living on a farm and doesnt want to be contacted"
Or he's dead, who knows, that's the thing with dictatorships.
I'm not denying the holocaust, your denying another genocide!
Thanks for admitting you were being dishonest about his condition. China is not a dictatorship. You have no idea how their system works. There are committee elections at all levels where delegates are selected by the people (with tiers leading to the NPC), and the CPC (~1 in 10 eligible as members) leadership is determined by democratic centralism with elections at party committees and congresses up to the Central Committee.
It's not a genocide. Not only has nobody been killed (except by the US-backed terror attacks), Uyghur culture is uplifted in the media and on the ground. People have to rely on the shoddy research [1] [2] of a bigoted Christian nationalist that works for a US government foundation started by Nazi collaborators (Zenz), awful reports by the BBC where they are let into education facilities and openly distort information, and numerous NED-funded orgs or MIC thinktanks whose evidence amounts to nothing.
Regarding the former, Adrian Zenz and James Mulvenon (former member of the U.S. state adjacent Council on Foreign Relations and member of the National Committee on United States - China Relations, which along with the Defense Group Inc.—of which he is vice-president–provides military policy planning and assessments to the United States Government) affirmed some anonymously leaked ICIJ “China Cable” Documents, one of which is a top-secret telegram which the ICIJ describes as:
“...from the Communist Party commission in charge of Xinjiang’s security apparatus. The telegram, written in Chinese, is an operations manual for running the mass detention camps. It is marked ‘secret’ and was approved by Zhu Hailun, then deputy secretary of Xinjiang’s Communist Party and the region’s top security official.”
Clearly what we have here is a document meant for only the highest levels of the bureaucracy, one which will divulge the actual thought process and rationale behind re-education policy, and cannot be construed as propaganda.
The document begins with a set of guidelines for running the facilities. First is “[to] ensure that the training venue is absolutely safe].” The guidelines follow:
“It is strictly forbidden for police to enter the student zone with guns, and they must never allow escapes, never allow trouble… never allow food safety incidents and major epidemics, and they must ensure the training center is safe and free of risk”
"Through letter writing, phone calls, video chats, visits, meetings, etc., establish a mechanism for students and relatives to interact with each other, to that the ensure students will have a phone conversation with their relatives at least once a month, to make their family feel at ease and the students feel safe."
"...every effort should be made to fix employment work for completed graduates to ensure the smooth development of students with employment aspirations. For those who don't have the ability to work and have difficulties in life, it is necessary to coordinate grassroots organizations to seriously carry out assistance and relief work, and effectively solve practical difficulties."
There are further notes on strict time management, preventing earthquakes and fires, and also measures to surveil all areas. These seem comparable to prisons, which is in line with the highest facilities being reserved for radicalized terrorists (bulletin No. 20 deals with those spreading violent propaganda / those who have joined terrorist organizations). When considering that the United States promoted terrorist radicalization in Xinjiang, such things lose isolation. The document outlines a very strict process, but one not mentioning forced anti-religious practices such as consuming pork or alcohol [The Independent 29 May 2018], organ harvesting [Falun Gong cult allegations], forced labor [U.S. Dept. of Labor], or physical abuse/torture (again, we cannot make a case of propaganda, because these are again purportedly top-secret documents).
Wow, you're not a propagandist, you just have a 400 word copypasta about how a guy who disappears everyone who criticises him isn't a dictator...
Thought-terminating cliche