I am pretty isolated as a striving vegan, like you say when I talk to people especially on the left I just assume that they are already inclined towards veganism and talk try to talk to them with respect and listen.
I haven't seen that kind of respect here until seeing your comment. I genuinely think it's just a safe vector for white people to take out their racial grievances because I have never seen that tactic actually work on a non-white person because it's always punching down and they never listen. Like you can't reach people if you already hate them, they can feel it and it's the same feeling of disgust as racism.
Like I am supposed to be pushed to change both myself and family by someone that already hates both myself and family. I see the posts on /c/vegan mocking indigenous people all the time. Yeah it's used as a strawman but I genuinely believe the number of militant carnists on Hexbear (and the principled left writ large) is very low and that most people do just feel bad about it, and even if I can communicate that well enough and do have the vocabulary to explain it I am almost always just treated terribly and dismissed as a strawman.
The thing is that most POC I know haven't been to college, they don't have vocabulary or rhetorical training to communicate these things so they are treated even worse than I am by white vegans. They're treated like this because the people disrespecting and abusing them were raised white first and chose to be vegan second, that's the primary contradiction that I think has to be understood and I don't know why it isn't the first thing taught to vegan cadres (or whatever they are called).
I have never once met a white vegan that greeted me with respect, and that's why I think it (white veganism, first wave veganism, whatever it can be called) is a dead end. All my friends (mostly non-white) had extremely hostile reactions to veganism, I tried reaching out to them as equals and got them to open up to the idea just by asking them "why not" and offering them vegan food and recipes. Getting them to switch to plant milk, etc. It's not much but it was progress and it was easy, I am sure it will be much harder beyond that but I always try to be with them.
I really do believe it's racism, some strain of calvinism, and chauvinism, I don't see it working at all and that's why it feels like they're doing it for themselves or some idea in their heads rather than the people and animals in front of them.
I am pretty isolated as a striving vegan, like you say when I talk to people especially on the left I just assume that they are already inclined towards veganism and talk try to talk to them with respect and listen.
I haven't seen that kind of respect here until seeing your comment. I genuinely think it's just a safe vector for white people to take out their racial grievances because I have never seen that tactic actually work on a non-white person because it's always punching down and they never listen. Like you can't reach people if you already hate them, they can feel it and it's the same feeling of disgust as racism.
Like I am supposed to be pushed to change both myself and family by someone that already hates both myself and family. I see the posts on /c/vegan mocking indigenous people all the time. Yeah it's used as a strawman but I genuinely believe the number of militant carnists on Hexbear (and the principled left writ large) is very low and that most people do just feel bad about it, and even if I can communicate that well enough and do have the vocabulary to explain it I am almost always just treated terribly and dismissed as a strawman.
The thing is that most POC I know haven't been to college, they don't have vocabulary or rhetorical training to communicate these things so they are treated even worse than I am by white vegans. They're treated like this because the people disrespecting and abusing them were raised white first and chose to be vegan second, that's the primary contradiction that I think has to be understood and I don't know why it isn't the first thing taught to vegan cadres (or whatever they are called).
I have never once met a white vegan that greeted me with respect, and that's why I think it (white veganism, first wave veganism, whatever it can be called) is a dead end. All my friends (mostly non-white) had extremely hostile reactions to veganism, I tried reaching out to them as equals and got them to open up to the idea just by asking them "why not" and offering them vegan food and recipes. Getting them to switch to plant milk, etc. It's not much but it was progress and it was easy, I am sure it will be much harder beyond that but I always try to be with them.
I really do believe it's racism, some strain of calvinism, and chauvinism, I don't see it working at all and that's why it feels like they're doing it for themselves or some idea in their heads rather than the people and animals in front of them.
They won’t learn until they acknowledge their racism. Which for some white people is impossible
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