I know what liberalism is. But the first time I encountered that it is used so often was when I looked into English-speaking social media sites like Reddit two years ago.

Spoiler

It is not common to know about reddit here, I live in Bratwurstland. I just wanted to join the pigeon subreddit back then.

Bourgeois, bourgeois class consciousness, bourgeois thinking, bourgeois revolution, etc. The same with petty bourgeoisie etc. etc.

I have the complete collected works of Lenin physically available in german. I have the most important writings of Marx and Engels with me, as well as Tito, Thälmann, Karl Liebknecht, Stalin, Trotsky, Plekhanov, even Lykassenko and some more. (I dont just buy writings I like, but also writing I dont like)

Liberalism didn't come up that often, only when it was actually about liberalism. But the way liberals are often referred to on English-language social media sites, including here, is a bit strange to me.

Idk about other languages that much. I also didn't encountered this kind of usage of liberal in the russian version of Lenin's writings. Bourgeois, bourgeois class consciousness, bourgeois thinking, bourgeois revolution, etc. The same with petty bourgeoisie etc. etc.

Maybe there some here who know what I am talking about and can explain it to me.

Edit: Why did Voyager destroyed my formattig many times

Edit2: Thank you all for your engagement. You helped me a lot how to understand it more correctly if I read it from someone using english language .

  • m5rki5n@lemmygrad.ml
    ·
    5 months ago

    I think meanings of words just change. Liberal 100 years ago is different from a liberal today, so usually when we say liberal, we probably mean neoliberal. Is it academically correct? No, but it's an internet forum, we don't need to use as precise language as possible.

    But don't take my word for it. I could be completely wrong and there might be another reason.

    • Soviet Pigeon@lemmygrad.ml
      ·
      5 months ago

      Yes, meaning of words change. But I live in a place, where liberal is mostly used if it is meant as it is by definition.

      I personally think that the usage of words in the context of marxist discussions has be correct, if it is of course one. But even the in english speaking spheres it is almost all about liberal here and there. And this is what confuses me, because I can't understand it well. I only encounter it in english speaking social media.

      The most stupid think that immigrated to the political language ductus in Germany is "tanky" btw.

      • redtea@lemmygrad.ml
        ·
        5 months ago

        Liberal can be a synonym for bourgeois. But maybe it's like this:

        • all liberal societies, etc, are bourgeois
        • not all bourgeois societies/arrangements are liberal
        • liberalism is the dominant bourgeois form
        • in particular, US (neo)liberalism is the dominant bourgeois form
        • people in the US use liberal to refer to 'left-wing' bourgeois politics and political parties
        • the US has no reason to distinguish liberalism from other political economies or ideologies because bourgeois liberalism is presented as the only option (and bourgeois seem to believe that capitalism is the only option without any question)
        • the English-speaking internet is dominated by US platforms, media, and people
        • English speakers mostly hear the US usage, meaning the US usage is common

        Your English is good, btw. It's definitely good enough to explain what you mean about liberal/bourgeois. The fact that you have been misunderstood is not because of your English. I think it is because of the exact problem that you have identified—the confusion between liberal/bourgeois.

        • Soviet Pigeon@lemmygrad.ml
          ·
          5 months ago

          • all liberal societies, etc, are bourgeois

          • not all bourgeois societies/arrangements are liberal

          • liberalism is the dominant bourgeois form

          I totally agree with this! This is how I understood it.

          • the US has no reason to distinguish liberalism from other political economies or ideologies because bourgeois liberalism is presented as the only option (and bourgeois seem to believe that capitalism is the only option without any question)

          • the English-speaking internet is dominated by US platforms, media, and people

          • English speakers mostly hear the US usage, meaning the US usage is common

          I understood it now. First time I encountered the SLS subreddit I was kind of confused. Like, why are things labeled as liberal, when a party or country is not liberal. But how you explained it, it makes sense.

          Your English is good, btw. It's definitely good enough to explain what you mean about liberal/bourgeois. The fact that you have been misunderstood is not because of your English. I think it is because of the exact problem that you have identified—the confusion between liberal/bourgeois.

          Thank you for your compliment. I understand it now better thanks to you all. Great to have a place to ask questions and receive friendly answers!

    • redtea@lemmygrad.ml
      ·
      5 months ago

      Would 'liberal' not be the umbrella term for all other types of liberalism? That would make it accurate to refer to a neoliberal as a liberal.