The core organizing group is deciding who to organize with, and the main consideration is UFCW.

Good or no? Any other unions we should consider?

We're an independent retail store

All managers are bastards. Fuckers are causing injuries with malicious management tactics.

  • oscardejarjayes [comrade/them]
    ·
    5 months ago

    UFCW is very much a business union. On occasion they'll do cool things, but it's far from a guarantee. Large business unions like the UFCW are also generally more willing to reject leads.

    If you and the other workers want a contract, and are reasonably confident you can get one, go for it. But around half of all Union elections fail, and a surprising number of unionized work places can't manage to get a contract (though you might have better luck with your independent store). In regards to those malicious management tactics, they might help file a ULP, but that's very dependent on your local.

    A lot of the alternatives are smaller, and as such kind of location dependent. Like with the IWW (which is tiny, compared to most unions), if you're near a good branch, it's great. For example, the IWW in San Francisco has quite a few shops unionized (keep in mind that there are usually more IWW shops than advertised, a surprising number of places like to stay under codename). Sometimes cities will have smaller "independent" unions, that focus organizing in just one area. Other places have coalitions of unions that might be willing to help you out.

    One thing to consider doing is to just reach out to a number of organizations and unions, without necessarily committing

    • TheModerateTankie [any]
      hexagon
      ·
      5 months ago

      Thank you. My preference would be the IWW, and they have a big presence around here, but was told the way they organize might not be a great fit for our kind of store. I'll suggest we contact multiple organizations.

  • Dimmer06 [he/him,comrade/them]
    ·
    edit-2
    5 months ago

    I don't have personal experience as a member of UFCW but I've tried to organize two different shops with UFCW, I've got extensive secondhand insight into them, and I've been paying a lot of attention to them through news and other means. Overall most of the locals and the International are kind of shit but there are a few good locals that will actually make an effort for you and if you work with one your experience might be quite different from this.

    UFCW and most of its locals are primarily interested in gaining members for dues money. That doesn't necessarily mean you wouldn't benefit from working with them, but understand that is how they will be making decisions. If you're a single location retailer they'll probably help you out because they can probably get a contract. If your employer could afford to shut your location down rather than deal with a union then UFCW might be more hesitant, or if you're too small to be profitable they might also not be interested. They will dedicate resources to you based on how much risk and reward (for them) there is.

    When it comes to contract negotiations UFCW tends to not like employees being super involved. I've heard multiple stories about locals only allowing people to see multiple page tentative agreements the day voting is happening. Also your UFCW insurance (which I've heard is pretty good) and retirement will probably be handled by UFCW so there won't actually be much to negotiate about that. You'll have access to a pension but you'll need to contribute to it for a few years before it's vested and you'll be allowed to withdraw when you retire, unlike a 401k or IRA. Your major issues might be addressed in bargaining but UFCW will also be trying to reach a contract and if your issues are a serious impediment to that then they might ignore them.

    If your employer won't bargain with UFCW they won't be much help. You won't have access to strike funds but they might help you organize smaller actions. Depending on how invested in you they are they might help you through the NLRB, though that can be a long and tedious process even with a large union supporting you. UFCW will also vehemently oppose any strategic minority actions which IMHO are undervalued and underutilized to the detriment of the working class.

    Chances are you will have near zero impact in your local if you want to change anything. UFCW locals are huge, usually representing tens of thousands of disparate members, so organizing against incumbent powers is quite challenging. You won't be a member until you have a contract and are paying dues. Many locals have probationary periods for new members too so you might not be allowed to vote in elections or run for office for a while. Both the locals and international are closely wedded to the Democratic party too. The International is deeply bureaucratic and corrupt. The reform effort in the union is currently suing the International over unequal representation at the last convention.

    The unfortunate thing though is that most established unions are like this. The Teamsters or an SEIU local might also take you but they tend to be similar to UFCW in most ways. UE is a really cool union but they have a pretty limited presence. You could also organize independently which you shouldn't be afraid to do because the one thing that is true of every single established union in the US is that they will not organize for you and your only real power is between you and your coworkers. You can always affiliate with a larger union as an independent union too.

    UFCW certainly isn't all bad. I've heard many good stories about it too and there are a lot of well meaning people in it so take everything I've said here with a grain of salt. My best advice would be to build your organizing committee to ten percent of the store, make sure they're trained and seriously committed, and then reach out to and interview the different union locals in your area. Don't sign with UFCW simply because they're the first option and never forget that you and your coworkers can't rely on anyone (big unions, the NLRB, etc.) but yourselves.

    Also, slight digression, don't let the NLRB or anyone else define what is an isn't a union in your workplace. If you and a couple of coworkers are banding together to improve your lives then you are a union, regardless if you have won an NLRB election or not. NLRB elections grant exclusive bargaining rights not a union.

    • TheModerateTankie [any]
      hexagon
      ·
      5 months ago

      Great reply, thank you. There seems to be a couple portential red flags with the UFCW, so I'll bring those up with the group.

      Our main concerns right now are staffing levels being kept absurdly low and making the workplace unsafe while we are experiencing record growth, as well as the store manager encouraging schedules to be weaponized against employees they don't like, which has resulted in several injuries so far. The benefits are decent, so switching to the UFCW and their benefits system might scare some people away from voting for it.

      We are laying low because the current management seems rather ruthless and we suspect they will start unlawfully firing people if they suspect union activity. One of our hopes with a bigger union would be to have enough legal muscle to scare them away from doing that. Sounds like the UFCW won't step in to help on that front unless the union is voted on? Should we just find a labor lawyer instead? Or is this just a risk we have to take once we start advocating in the open?

      Sounds like an independent union that affiliates with a bigger one might be the way to go. Do you (or anyone reading this) happen to know any good resources for that?

      Thanks again.

      • Dimmer06 [he/him,comrade/them]
        ·
        5 months ago

        Sounds like the UFCW won't step in to help on that front unless the union is voted on? Should we just find a labor lawyer instead? Or is this just a risk we have to take once we start advocating in the open?

        UFCW would most likely help you file ULP charges and navigate that process before an election (especially if you had already signed a card) but American labor law is basically pointless and you'd still be out of a job until you could prove to the board that you were fired for protected activity which can take months or even years if you can prove it at all whether or not you have a large union helping you. Also usually labor lawyers offer services cheaply or freely to working people. Sometimes UFCW will hire workers that get fired but from what I've heard working for UFCW is horrific so not sure I would recommend.

        If you have a worker center or maybe a labor education center near you they might be able to help guide you and put you in touch with a lawyer.

        As for organizing independently you're going to be doing the same thing for the most part that you would with a large union (assuming you work through the NLRB). Build a committee, map the store, get people to sign cards, petition the NLRB, win an election, and negotiate a contract. I think you'd need to have some sort of charter and officers at some point and if you're handling more than a few hundred dollars as the union you'll need to incorporate as a 501c(5) but those things aren't as complex as they might seem.