Does Ukraine really have a neo-Nazi problem? US officials won't say
forward.com
Some Jewish leaders and U.S. officials have pulled back their criticism of the Azov Brigade since Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
  • imPastaSyndrome@lemm.ee
    ·
    11 months ago

    I think that most of that is entirely fair.

    yes, if they keep escalating and refusing to negotiate then Russia will have to keep taking more and more of Ukraine to ensure its security.

    I mean this doesn't sound like anything other than shut up and do what Russia says or keep getting the stick because:

    The nature of Russia's government is wholly irrelevant to all of this. Any government that looks out for Russia's vital national interests and security would be compelled to do the same.

    Okay but shouldn't the same logic follow for Ukraine?

    In fact we are more pro-Ukraine than those who cheerlead them and egg them on to keep commiting national suicide.

    This is about as sincere as and the same logic as Republicans that want to make abortions illegal because "black people get more abortions then white people, do you really support eugenics?".

    You're assuming that Ukraine doesn't benefit from and won't end the war on their terms, which with it obviously being a proxy war, i find it hard to believe that Russia will 'win'

    I sincerely appreciate you sharing the general beliefs, I just can't make that last leap in logic that you are suggesting for the above reasons.

    • cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml
      ·
      11 months ago

      "shouldn't the same logic follow for Ukraine?"

      It should but due to the fact that its current government is a puppet government controlled by the West (not to mention full of fanatical ideologues who, to put it mildly, are not on good terms with reality), it does not act in the best interests of Ukraine. The national interest of Ukraine lies in having good relations with Russia. Pre-2014 Ukraine was attempting to balance between Russia and the West, which was a pretty lucrative arrangement for them. They were getting to play the role of a bridge between two very important economies, trading with both and collecting all kinds of transit fees such as on gas.

      Unfortunately the US and EU were not satisfied with that and they overthrew that government and installed a fanatically russophobic regime into power that proceeded to destroy Ukraine's economic viability by irrationally cutting ties with Russia despite the fact that the Ukrainian manufacturing economy had been designed since Soviet times to be intertwined with that of Russia. Then they proceeded to launch a brutal eight year war on their own people simply because those people demanded autonomy and protection from the discriminatory laws that the new - illegitimate - government was passing. None of this benefited Ukraine or the Ukrainian people.

      But this is what happens when a country loses its sovereignty, and worse, lets the lunatics take over the asylum. We can argue all day about whether this is fair but the reality is, a country like Ukraine has to take into account the interests of its larger and more powerful neighbor. It is highly unwise to provoke and poke at someone stronger than you until they snap. It is also a fact that Ukraine would be better off if they stopped fighting. It may be hard to swallow for the nationalists but they could start to recover economically and more importantly people would stop dying. Ukraine may dream of ending the war on their terms but that is not happening. There is no indication that that is even remotely possible. At some point you have to cut your losses.