Does Ukraine really have a neo-Nazi problem? US officials won't say
forward.com
Some Jewish leaders and U.S. officials have pulled back their criticism of the Azov Brigade since Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
  • Serdan@lemm.ee
    ·
    11 months ago

    So why did you immediately decide that I believe everything put out by the US State Department, just because I expressed the mildest exasperation at the lemmygrad discourse?

    Besides, I've been very clear on USA bad, so you know that much.

    • MCU_H8ER@lemmygrad.ml
      ·
      11 months ago

      I apologize for being harsh, but we have been brigaded by many people who do come and argue in bad faith.

      However, simply replying 'source' to things that are sourced within this post is going to make me think you're arguing in bad faith.

      What is your understanding and position on this conflict? I am asking in earnest.

      • Serdan@lemm.ee
        ·
        11 months ago

        My position is that Russian troops marching into Ukraine and bombing Ukrainian cities constitutes an invasion and that Ukrainians obviously have an indisputable right to defend their homes.

        History didn't start in 2022, but the invasion is a very clear escalation that is killing thousands of people. It's fucking inexcusable.

        Putin is a psychopath billionaire who should go jump off a building. I hope that isn't controversial.

          • Serdan@lemm.ee
            ·
            11 months ago

            People are dying. Could you at least pretend to care?

            Fucking shitlib Anericans, I swear...

            • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]
              ·
              11 months ago

              We do care. Thats why we want the war to end. We are against US/NATO who have kept Ukraine from negotiating peace with the Russian Federation. We want the people of the Donbas to leave Ukraine and join the Russian Federation like they've voted for, so they won't be killed by Azov Nazis like they have been for the last 8 years.

              • Serdan@lemm.ee
                ·
                11 months ago

                You don't get to claim territory militarily. It doesn't fucking matter if people voted (and since when do you guys care about electoralism anyway?)

                You're seriously taking Putin's justification for the war at face value? I know I shouldn't expect much from Americans, but holy fucking shit. Let's say it again for the dumb fucks in the room: Putin is a self-serving bastard. Nothing he says can be trusted. He's not pursuing some noble goal of pushing back NATO, or whatever stupid shit you believe.

                Ukraine is a sovereign nation and can negotiate peace whenever they want, but they're not going to accept giving up territory that was taken militarily, because it sets a really fucking bad precedent. Every single state in the world would do exactly the same, including Russia incidentally. If Russia had a region with an ethnic Ukrainian majority do you think they would accept losing that territory? Get the fuck outta here.

                • MCU_H8ER@lemmygrad.ml
                  ·
                  11 months ago

                  This is a childlike worldview. Ukraine has almost already lost the war. Do you really want them to literally fight to the last Ukrainian?

                  Also Putin is just one person. What about the rest of the material conditions?

                  • Serdan@lemm.ee
                    ·
                    11 months ago

                    I'm not stating an opinion about what should happen. I'm stating the undeniable fact that states don't surrender territory easily. As we are in fact seeing. The point is that saying Ukraine should surrender is just as pointless as saying Russia should immediately withdraw from all occupied territory. Neither is going to happen.

                    In practical terms I oppose my own country dumping weapons into Ukraine, because that's an absolute cluster fuck waiting to happen, and it's the only thing I even remotely have any influence over.

                    The material conditions of young men getting slaughtered by the thousands? Snark aside, feel free to bring up another topic for discussion, but you'll have to be a bit more specific.

                    • MCU_H8ER@lemmygrad.ml
                      ·
                      11 months ago

                      The USA has sabotaged multiple peace talks. I don't remember specifics at the moment. This situation is not as black and white as Putler bad and he wanted to snatch up land.

                • Egon [they/them]
                  ·
                  11 months ago

                  You don't get to claim territory militarily.

                  Lmao what are these playground rules? Do you think there's an adult to run to, that decides what you "get" to do and what you don't? Everything is enforced by violence or the threat of it, what "gets" to happen is ultimately a question of who can enforce their will.
                  Historically you do actually "get" to take territory that you've conquered, it happens all the time.

                  The material reality is that these areas are already claimed.

                  You're seriously taking Putin's justification for the war at face value?

                  No. I looked into it and when I saw the many Nazis in Ukraine and the repeated breaches of Minsk II as well as the rampant encroaches by NATO, despite previous agreements, I took it to be somewhat understandable.
                  Are you just taking what your media is telling you at face value? Putin isn't the only one with an agenda, I sure do hope you remain skeptic when the same people that pushed "the ghost of Kiev" stories push other untruths meant to further an already lost war.

                  Putin is a self-serving bastard.

                  As opposed to all the other leaders that are just uwu smol bean good guys lmao dont-laugh start employing the same level of skepticism against your "own" team, and you might be a little less dumb.

                  Ukraine is a sovereign nation and can negotiate peace whenever they want.

                  Not according to NATO, that sent Boris Johnson to sabotage negotiations just-a-theory

                  Every single state in the world would do exactly the same, including Russia incidentally.

                  Except for all the times they didn't incidentally. Most states aren't willing to pointlessly murder all their people, most states try to find a solution before war breaks out and then seek a rapid end to said war - See for example the Azerbaijan conflict, or even the border conflict between Imdia and china where they refrain from using firearms. Alternatively Italy in WWII.
                  The last state I can think of that threw everybody into a meat grinder for no reason was checks notes Nazi Germany with the volksturm. (And before you go "well the USSR" please recall that the Nazis planned to murder all the slavs with their generalplan ost, so the only choice was to fight)