Honestly though, despite the incest and murder memes CK is probably the least problematic Paradox grand strategy title and has one of the less toxic fanbases, relatively speaking. HOI attracts straight up Nazis and propagates anti-communist myths, while EU is deeply eurocentric and literally rewards you for doing colonialism.
HOI attracts straight up Nazis
That's only gonna get worse with the new DLC
I think it feels like that because the historical separation is greater. The crusades are a thing in the game after all.
Yeah, the part about the historical separation is definitely true. As for crusades, i think their impact on the game is really pretty minimal. I've always thought the name of the series doesn't really fit with what you actually end up playing most of the time. I mean you can play entire campaigns without ever really having to interact with an actual Crusade crusade depending on where and when you start.
Plus, crusades aren't even really that special because any at least somewhat militant faith gets its own version of holy wars, so in a way it's equal opportunity problematic (though that in itself could be criticized as a form of propaganda by projection, because in reality most of the rest of the world did NOT have their own version of the crusades).
I would say the most problematic aspect of CK is that by its very nature it puts aristocratic elites ("noble" families) in the driver's seat of history. It implicitly adopts a "great man theory" view on (pseudo-)history, and does it more so than any other Paradox grand strategy title. And that's not really fixable, it's built into the DNA of the game, as its whole gimmick is that it's character/roleplay driven.
You just have to be aware that what you're playing is closer to fantasy than actual history. That's probably also why it lends itself so well to fantasy mods.
That incest is btw mostly meme, it happens pretty rarily in game, though there is one incest achievement on steam. Murders also got (steathily?) nerfed at some point, currently it somehow ALWAYS surfaces even if done in utmost secrecy, if your character lives long enough sooner or later someone completely unrelated would come to blackmail you for it (and if that person is your own vassal better murder him ASAP too, since your vassal getting hook on you can potentially even wreck your entire gameplay, like when some 0 stat dude forces himself into your council).
Last patch btw got plots reworked now they are much better and less random.
I think the game currently has a problem with landless characters blackmailing you too often, but otherwise the new plot system seems fine.
Yeah, though i found landless characters blackmailing me not even very big problem, i don't remember any of the even demanding something dramatic. The real nasty blackmail is demanding council post, they can potentially drive you to bankrupcy or civil war or even death depending on their skill and post, and this can only be done by vassal, usually it's better to just get your secret revealed and eat up the maluses (only exception i think if you are vassal and the secret can make your liege to revoke your titles), or if you are good with inbtrigue accept and murder them too.
I mostly play with mods though and i like new system, recently i pulled out assassination with -1800 initial chance, though it took LONG.
It's not a big problem because landless adventurer NPCs don't really do anything atm, but the game doesn't pause when you get a blackmail and it is really bad to suddenly have your screen obscured by a popup window while in-game time is still passing.
I own it but have only played a tiny bit of Vic3. Didn't they end up having to nerf communism because it ended up being the most effective policy by far?
Communism comes in two flavours - cooperative ownership and planned economy. First is the best policy by far if you want to improve standard of living and second is IMO tied with laissez-faire as the best policy for rapid industrialization, especially in small states.
I know next to nothing about the Vic series, but isn't it sort of an imperialism simulator?
It's more of a historical materialism simulator with socialism being kind of an endpoint of development. Also, it is really good at making people hate landowners and to a lesser extent capitalists.
Tangentially related, but CK2 was always, and to this day remains, the better game, possibly the best Paradox game ever made. I check back in with CK3 every year or so to see if the DLCs or workshop have caught it up, and so far, still miles off.
I agree that CK3 did failed to deliver to its potential, bit imo it's way better than CK2, CK2 is a mess of disconnected systems and while CK3 also seems to steer in that direction in last year (the awful and useless struggle mechanic and making stupic administrative system which is a tangled mess instead of modular governments like they did modular religion and modular cultures), it all click much better even though not having even a half of the content CK2 do. Mods are underwhelming on 3d assets but pretty much already as good as CK2 because CK3 is more moddable.
And best PDX game is definitely Stellaris
Agree to disagree I suppose. My biggest issue was always how little difference there was between playing in different parts of the world. They went ahead and made a massive map including way more cultures, and the gameplay loop is identical everywhere, with a smattering of flavor events. Playing as nomads, Muslims, Norse, Africans all feels wildly different in CK2, but in 3 they're all the same. They've made small steps to help with that, granted, but it's still so shallow.
I think another factor is the amount of RNG, for a game like crusader kings, I think streamlining systems down to being progress bars that fill up and guarantee results really takes away from the experience, in CK2 the slight randomness made things like Bloodlines, Items, holdings system, mystical events, story event chains, all much more varied for that reason, and added up to make your playthroughs feel significantly different. I actually did like the new Admin system, as it made some sense as a representation of Byzantine government but in typical CK3 fashion, they decided to make it generic and available to every nation.
Stellaris is alright too, hence my "Possibly". CK2, Stellaris and EU4 are currently top spot, just hoping that they don't pull a CK3 with EU5.
I guess we really agree to disagree on here because it seems we play in entirely different games, especially i don't remember any variety from CK2 except nomads and republics and it was a crap variety, disconnected and pretty much bland, and the current administrative system was exactly the same mistake.
just hoping that they don’t pull a CK3 with EU5.
I hope they do, CK3 is way better than Ck2 while EU4 was worst part of the series so that could only mean improvement. Not to mention EU4 is like posterboy of bad DLC policies with tons of small pieces but all of them taste identical.
I hope they do, CK3 is way better than Ck2 while EU4 was worst part of the series so that could only mean improvement. Not to mention EU4 is like posterboy of bad DLC policies with tons of small pieces but all of them taste identical.
I was referring to the DLC policy of CK3 being used again for EU5, I hope EU5 includes all of EU4's features at launch. Saying EU4 is the worst for DLC is turning a blind eye to the fact that every Paradox game so far after Vic 2 has had horrendous DLC bloat. Paradox is probably the worst in the business with this, all their games are barely functional without the DLC.
I was referring to the DLC policy of CK3 being used again for EU5, I hope EU5 includes all of EU4’s features at launch
No chance, EU is THE milk cow and the udders will suffer. Also the comparison is somewhat unfair because CK3 at least tried to make it in another way, but sadly i feel like some people deciding this changed midway and suddenly we are back to CK2 politics (but note that on the usuals suspects, vikings and byzantium), some of the DLC's were really good, T&T was probably one of the best DLC for any PDX game ever. Even Royal Court while flawed was a sign things are going in other direction.
Saying EU4 is the worst for DLC is turning a blind eye to the fact that every Paradox game so far after Vic 2 has had horrendous DLC bloat
Yes, but it don't change the fact EU4 is the worst.
Yes, but it don’t change the fact EU4 is the worst.
Subjective, I still think CK2's had it worst, you can't even play as most of the world if you play without DLC. Hoi4 probably makes a good contender due to the absurd pricing.
I still think CK2’s had it worst, you can’t even play as most of the world if you play without DLC
Ah in that cathegory we should go back to EU1, only EU2 was the first game with entire map playable.
Hoi4 probably makes a good contender due to the absurd pricing.
Well i never think about HoI because it's imo consistently least interesting of PDX main games, i can't be even bothered to play it enough to rate it.
I am still extremely partial to Stellaris, though it is pretty different from the rest of their catalog given it is not a historical setting.
CK is a magical game series. Half the questions in any CK forum would be deeply disturbing in any other place.
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I know about it but never liked it in CK2, my favourite are Elder Kings 2 and LotR: Realms in Exile. Pity EK2 have the most annoying dev cycle i ever seen, they only update to current version something like 2 weeks before next big patch hit vanilla and again make the mod outdated. LotR currently have pretty good and stable open beta, though for some reason they focus on the uncanonical areas south of Harad and Umbar which are currently more fleshed out than the canon parts of Middle Earth.
Other mods i more or less follow are AGoT (quite good but i wait for them to flesh out Essos and add more bookmarks), Godherja, also Guardians of Azeroth have absolutely best characters models out there, and ambition to make entire WoW.
Lol are you me
But I'm gonna have to disagree on the LOTR point,I love what they did with the lore there,and from what I understand they're gonna keep expanding south to east,and quite frankly I can't wait to see what they're gonna cook up
Problem is, they have a lot of restrictions that are either painful or impossible to circumvent, like you apparently can even have children as an elf, so better turn off those random death events, and also literally 100% peacetime elf deaths among named characters i seen were caused by the one small event where you have like 3% chance of death after eating random poisonous plants during travel, even Elrond and Cirdan died like that. Also adventurer mechanics works bad for them, they are constantly leaving their lands to become adventurers, but i haven't seen even a single one sailing to Valinor. Hobbits are also pretty boring, you get vassalised into Reunited Kingdom and can't do a shit after because how incredibly restricted are vassals there (which somehow still don't prevent Mordor from destroying RK, i haven't seen even a single play where Mordor is destroyed). Dwarfs are good, though character generation is borked for them, there is way not enough dwarf women so AI dwarves keep marrying goblin women.
I think there's enough of black numenorean settlers on the map already, they should work on system integrations.
I'm gonna be the treat defender here and address your concerns
I mean,the elf stuff,hobbit mechanics and Reunited Kingdom are lore accurate,so they have a good reason to be that way
The random death thing is probably being worked on,since yeah,it's not supposed to happen
Also,on the adventurer comment,it's still the beta,and they're fleshing it out,so it probably won't be feature complete until after they finish the Ring Quest,which will take a while
Mordor rolling over RK is intentional,since it's what would have happened if the Ring wasn't a factor, Mordor just had the better army,they just had an Achilles heel
I agree on the dwarf thing,but you can usually circumvent that by marrying before 100, though the ai dynasties do die out needlessly
As for Numenoreans, you're in luck,the Thani Hazard is the last Numenorean dominated region,barring the ruins of Tanturak,which are in the beta,but they're unpopulated,and there's only one half Numenorean colony left to the east,but it's more native than Numenorean,so you won't be seeing more Numenoreans after this expansion
I think theyre gonna finish the utter south(Mumakan-Sauron aligned empire vs Korronade(human-elf alliance republic thingy),do Chey (evil) and Chy (good) and maybe do the southern archipelago in the meantime
I heard 5.0 will be ring quest,but they'll keep expanding the map in the meantime if they can,in the 4.0,4.1,4.2 model
Ok, but you don't get to defend unfun parts of mod by claiming lore accuracy when said more is full of self invented lore. Those are unfun, should be at least option to change it, they added crapton of noew game rules why not those too. This was the same gripe i had with the Warhammer mod for CK2, they spend literally years by making every concievable faction, but made some of them purposefully nearly unplayable within the game logic, like playing necrarch you couldn't do basically anything and Wood Elves had tons of special mechanics but all of them were boring and ultimately you just lost because factions with more normal gameplay played not like the Warhammer lore dictated but as CK2 gameplay dictated and it was game over because you was just a sitting duck for them.
The random death thing is probably being worked on,since yeah,it’s not supposed to happen
I hope, to be fair they did eliminated most of the stuff else i would also saw elves randomly dying from other reasons too.
Mordor rolling over RK is intentional,since it’s what would have happened if the Ring wasn’t a factor, Mordor just had the better army,they just had an Achilles heel
Btw have you read the (arguably) best War of the Ring force analysis in the Atlas of Middle-Earth? Author came to conclusion that the war was far from being onesided and Tolkien presentation of it in the extended lore was pretty realistic (for example how the events of Hobbit nearly completely crippled Sauron forces in the north or how Mordor had a real economy and logistic and thus even the numerical advantage wasn't overwhelming). If Dunedains weren't actually awful at governing and didn't driven all their lands to being depopulated or outright wasteland they could won way easier.
I agree on the dwarf thing,but you can usually circumvent that by marrying before 100, though the ai dynasties do die out needlessly
I played Dwarves in stable version (Stalin son of Balin lol) and it was actually very fun, just for some reason stable version is less stable than current beta, and the lack of women was widespread, probably because dwarfs also don't have many children and being male-dominated society they don't generate enough women courtiers, unlike elves who have gender equality. And now that i mentioned it i also had problems with getting enough dwarf men too to even fill the knights ranks and land vassals.
so you won’t be seeing more Numenoreans after this expansion
Good. At least they did added some dark elves and dwarves with interesting cultures too (Tulkas-worshipping elves are surprisingly fun and cool).
Well,the lore accurate parts are exactly the ones that are part of the original cannon,but sure,they could be game rules,it's the devs vision,after all,but I don't disagree
As for the military analysis,that's what the modders line is,and why they made it that way,but there is a game rule to change it at least
I mean mod did had the numbers mostly right, but Sauron wins because he's not dividing his forces on more armies unlike the book. Mod also have more or less canonical MAA stat values so for example in my current play as Maglor i field 2000 Noldor knights and it's enough to frontally massacre 100000 strong Mordor Army but i for some reason i don't have any good CB and have to do it one duchy at a time and in the meantime Sauron conquers everyone around him faster. btw this kinda reminds me of US elections where Trump is Sauron and must be stopped no matter the price but also we must wait for truce to end or else get heavy maluses from people also supposedly hating him lol.
That's more of a base game limitation
I think they made it so only Gondor can kill him as a failsafe before they add the Ring,cuz otherwise you end up with landless Sauron,which I have heard talk of maybe potentially getting content
They do have a game rule about that, you can set it from "RK will win" but where's the fun here, default is "RK will hold Mordor at bay but need help to defeat it" - i chosen this one but Mordor just steamrolled half of world in 150 years. And then there are two settings with even stronger Mordor which i don't think i will ever try lol.
Oh and now that i checked, it was probably because Aragorn died like 10 years after coronation because of the same travel random eating event.
