I dont care about either sides goals because im not naive enough to buy into military propoganda, which the goals are.
During a war nothing either side says matters, you fatally misunderstand what happens to the media when a war breaks out, it just becomes another instrument of war, and as such nothing can be trusted but the satalite footage of where the war is and boots on the ground reports of people there, everything else is bullshit.
Ok please enlighten me on the winning condition for russia to end this conflict in their favour. No need for "military propoganda" just how does this end in your mind?
Ok, so what does that entail? I don't think you can just jump on TV and call peace. Ukraine has stated many times that they will not agree to any peace deal without the boarders going back to 2014, russia has stated that will not fly.
Even if you assume its a full on meat grinder for both sides, how does russia win in this situation?
They claimed this military operation was to de-milliteraze Ukraine, the opposite has happened.
They claimed this military operation was to put a stop to NATO expansion, the opposite has happened.
They claimed this military operation was to protect the Donbas people, now they are the group who has suffered the largest casualties in this conflict.
They claimed this military operation was to ensure the russian people prosperity and security, the opposite has happened.
That is my point, there is no going back. Even if Ukraine before this was on shaky ground as a nation they are now determined to fight on and on and on. russia also has no credibility as shown today, and this has been stated many times by Ukraine that any treaty with russia is worth less then the paper it is printed on.
So I ask again, how does russia get anyone to show up and sign anything? How do they force peace?
Why have you gave one shit indeed, its not like that was the whole reason to invade or anything.
According to the stated russian objectives they have already lost this conflict, time will tell if Ukraine also looses.
I dont care about either sides goals because im not naive enough to buy into military propoganda, which the goals are.
During a war nothing either side says matters, you fatally misunderstand what happens to the media when a war breaks out, it just becomes another instrument of war, and as such nothing can be trusted but the satalite footage of where the war is and boots on the ground reports of people there, everything else is bullshit.
Ok please enlighten me on the winning condition for russia to end this conflict in their favour. No need for "military propoganda" just how does this end in your mind?
with a peace agreement
Ok, so what does that entail? I don't think you can just jump on TV and call peace. Ukraine has stated many times that they will not agree to any peace deal without the boarders going back to 2014, russia has stated that will not fly.
Even if you assume its a full on meat grinder for both sides, how does russia win in this situation? They claimed this military operation was to de-milliteraze Ukraine, the opposite has happened. They claimed this military operation was to put a stop to NATO expansion, the opposite has happened. They claimed this military operation was to protect the Donbas people, now they are the group who has suffered the largest casualties in this conflict. They claimed this military operation was to ensure the russian people prosperity and security, the opposite has happened.
what it entails are the borders freezing and everyone getting bored of sending 17 year olds through minefields
east ukraine will never be part of ukraine again, do you really think there is a going back now over a million people have died?
That is my point, there is no going back. Even if Ukraine before this was on shaky ground as a nation they are now determined to fight on and on and on. russia also has no credibility as shown today, and this has been stated many times by Ukraine that any treaty with russia is worth less then the paper it is printed on.
So I ask again, how does russia get anyone to show up and sign anything? How do they force peace?
Ukraine are forced to the table when the west stops sending them money, which I wager will be within a year.
That at least is an answer, and while I don't think it will happen (the collective west is doing to well from this) I do appreciate an honest attempt.