• Kirbywithwhip1987@lemmygrad.ml
    ·
    edit-2
    5 days ago

    Ukraine didn't exist for most of these years.

    Edit: holy shit they meant for the incoming 100 years? This is even more hilarious.

    • Red_Scare [he/him]@lemmygrad.ml
      ·
      5 days ago

      Ukraine didn't exist for most of these years.

      What is that even supposed to mean? Plenty of nations have been oppressed and denied self determination, that doesn't mean those nations didn't exist. Basque doesn't exist as a country, does it mean one can't express solidarity with their struggle for the past 100 years?

      • Kirbywithwhip1987@lemmygrad.ml
        ·
        5 days ago

        I first thought it meant 100 year partnership as in 100 year relations between them until now, not for the future, hence I said that Ukraine as a country didn't exist for most of that time, it was Soviet Union.

        • Red_Scare [he/him]@lemmygrad.ml
          ·
          4 days ago

          Sorry for jumping the gun there comrade.

          Although Ukraine did exist within the USSR, it was officially called Ukrainian SSR but everyone called it Ukraine, same as Russia was officially Russian SFSR but you wouldn't say Russia didn't exist.

          • Kirbywithwhip1987@lemmygrad.ml
            ·
            4 days ago

            I mean tecnically they were both part of one merged country and didn't exist as countries, same as Czechia and Slovakia didn't exist but Czechoslovakia did.

            But I meant Ukraine as in current and WW2 form, Nazikraine if you will.

            • Red_Scare [he/him]@lemmygrad.ml
              ·
              edit-2
              8 hours ago

              Czechia and Slovakia weren't separate entities the way Soviet republics were.

              Bandera cult is horrific and Banderites get the wall, but calling the whole country Nazikraine is really shitty, especially considering all the death and destruction brought on Ukraine by Western meddling and coups and local compradors. Do better.

              [Very late edit]

              Calling WW2 Ukraine "Nazikraine" is completely ahistorical, you could just as well call WW2 Belarus "Nazirus" because under Nazi occupation, Nazi collaborators were in power. Ukraine is not like Hungary or Romania, it was never allied with Nazi Germany. It was invaded and occupied as part of the USSR.

              Ukraine was one of the primary victims of Nazism along with Belarus, over two million Ukrainians enslaved and sent to German industries for forced labour, over five million slaughtered, entire villages razed to the ground, massremoveds organised by Nazi officers, mass shootings by SS death squads and Banderites, things Western education mostly glosses over. Even the 30s famine has nothing on the destruction Nazis wreaked on Ukraine.

              I doubt you can imagine the generational trauma people raised in the USSR have. Look up Babi Yar, I grew up not far from there and still remember school trips there. Watch "Come and See" and understand we were raised by people who lived through this (https://youtu.be/zjIiApN6cfg). Liberation from Nazis is not a laughing matter for us, which is why the Ukrainian grandma with the red flag resonated so deeply with so many ex-Soviet people (https://youtu.be/DfeflkpcOi4).

              Ukraine was a founding member of the USSR, Ukrainians were the largest ethnic group in the Red Army after Russians, with 5.3 million serving (https://i.imgur.com/62j4OYo.jpeg) - 21 times more than around 250 thousand total serving for the German military under the Nazi occupation (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_collaboration_with_Nazi_Germany#Collaborating_organizations,_political_movements,_individuals_and_military_volunteers). Marshall Zhukov said, "We have liberated Europe from fascism, but they will never forgive us for it". It was the Ukrainians who did the liberation, and now the West is destroying them in a proxy war against Russia, after putting Banderites in power.

              The role of the West is not accidental here. After WW2 the West immediately went on to put Nazi generals in charge of NATO. In Ukraine, despite the CIA support (operation Aerodynamic and others), remaining Bandrite gangs were eradicated by the early 50s, but Canada nurtured them in the following decades in hopes they can be transplanted back. All this simply because Nazism is an organic outgrowth of European settler-colonial project (same as Zionism), it's the ugly side of Western liberalism.

              Again, Bandrites get the wall, but I won't stand for equating Ukraine (or Russia) with Nazi Germany.

              • Kirbywithwhip1987@lemmygrad.ml
                ·
                4 days ago

                Current Ukraine is definitely a fascist rump state considering not only militant nazis, but also all the monuments, museums, busts, streets etc of some of the worst people from Eastern Europe in history all over the country.

    • Red_Scare [he/him]@lemmygrad.ml
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      edit-2
      4 days ago

      Just balkanize it, put comprador puppets in charge, stoke ethnic hatred to create intense ethnic violence and widespread atrocities, wreck the economy, loot everything of value, inflation 10,000% so that people's life savings can't buy a single meal, so that there's widespread child prostitution leading to child abuse of the most deadly drugs, have all that devastate the country so much it has the largest peacetime drop in age expectancy in recorded human history, like they did USSR... And then bomb it to absolute rubble, like Libya, to bring "freedom and democracy", so that no organised society can form for decades, so that the main economic activity are open-air slave markets, so that predictable storms and floods that the old government could easily deal with become events of apocalyptic proportions cause there's nobody to organise a response... And then do what Israel has been doing in Gaza with full support of the UK.

      • supersolid_snake@lemmygrad.ml
        ·
        4 days ago

        Comrades aside, they deserve all of this.

        I was going to say, they created an economic system that feeds on misery, but that's just capitalism including the highest stage of it, imperialism, and they were the lead innovators of it. So I didn't think of anything new lol.

          • supersolid_snake@lemmygrad.ml
            ·
            edit-2
            4 days ago

            Yeah, it's one of those things that's a genuine sentiment but when it came down to it, I would back down from it happening. It's just that any time you see something shitty happening, the English have their hands in it. I.e. providing surveillance flights to Israel, more than the israelis themselves.

        • Red_Scare [he/him]@lemmygrad.ml
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          edit-2
          4 days ago

          You're right of course. I just feel angry, powerless, and guilty.

          What I do genuinely support though is this: Western imperialism must end. Capitalism must end. Environmental collapse and slave-like exploitation suffered by the Global South can't be allowed to go on. But as capitalism falls more and more into the state of disrepair, the Global North slides deeper and deeper into fascism. They won't let go of their parasitic position without a fight.

          This means liberating oppressed nations, and oppressed classes, will require bloodshed, including "noncombatants" - whenever slaves revolt, some "peaceful" slave owners die.

          How much death and destruction should be wreaked on imperialists? As little as possible of course, but that's just another way of saying as much as it takes. So, if some form of what I described above is necessary for the rest of the world to finally be free of Western imperialism and capitalism, that's very unfortunate but so be it.

          I wish I could live in the pre-Gorbachev USSR, where I grew up. I wish I could live in a place where everyone lives in dignity and is free of fear over basic necessities, where people are taught internationalism and the country spends its resources to support liberation struggles around the world, provide free education to countless third world students so that they can go back and improve their homelands, rather than brain-drain poorer nations, and so on. But that's all been destroyed and I'm an immigrant living in the UK, paying taxes that buy depleted uranium shells that will be used to shoot up the land I grew up in and poison it for decades to come, causing huge increase in birth defects, cancer rates, and so on.

          Corbyn will launch a new left wing, class based political party this year, I'll join it and bring in whatever small family I have here, in hopes he can end forever austerity and forever wars, take us out of NATO, liberate us from the US domination, support the liberation of Palestine, and so on. But looking at how Melenchon got couped by Macron and the Frenchies didn't do their thing, I'm not too optimistic Corbyn will manage to achieve much more with Anglos... And if people don't follow Corbyn en masse, fascists will take power because at this point liberal Western democracy has lost all credibility and neither Labour nor Tories can stop the rise of Reform UK.

          And if Anglos choose fascism... I hope somebody liberates us at any cost. But I fear the opposite will happen and the UK will use its vast resources to cause orders of magnitude more suffering around the world than anything that could potentially happen to their tiny island.

          Sorry for the rant.

          • cayde6ml@lemmygrad.ml
            ·
            3 days ago

            You have no reason to be sorry. And holy shit, you grew up in the USSR? I'd love to hear all about it. Even the little details, if you wish.

            I feel alot of your same frustrations. I'm Amerikkkan though, and have never experienced socialism first hand. I'm hoping to move to China.

    • loathsome dongeater@lemmygrad.mlM
      ·
      5 days ago

      Truly a blight on humanity. I say we vacate the area for a hundred years or so. Maybe whatever makes the island the abhorrence that it is will have dissipated by then.

      • supersolid_snake@lemmygrad.ml
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        4 days ago

        Even now they are the dirty money capital of the world. Housing the wealth of the world's oligarchs as their native populations are relegated to poverty and destitution. I am almost convinced no one there has ever earned an honest dollar, or should I say pound.

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.ml
      hexagon
      ·
      4 days ago

      I think it's entirely possible that the UK will have a huge economic crash and at that point Ireland and Scotland could exist the union as a result. All the economic indicators right now show that the UK is in really deep trouble, and it's likely only gonna get worse going forward.