Happy to see the gardening sub pop up, and want to facilitate some discussion. So ask me anything you're curious about. I might not know the answer outright, but can help troubleshoot stuff too.
How would you suggest city folk get into gardening? I have an interest in permaculture
Edit: Thank you so much for sharing your expertise!
Oh another rule of thumb too: flowering and fruiting are the most energy intensive life stage of a plant, so an indoor garden should focus on plants that are used for their vegetative parts. That's why herbs are so nice. We don't generally use herbs for their reproductive parts, but simply for their vegetative parts. Light levels required for reproductive parts like flowers, fruits, nuts, and seeds won't likely be adequately achieved with simulated light conditions. Mint, cilantro, basil, oregano, parsley, chives, rosemary. Those are the ticket for an indoor gardener.
Permaculture is really a fascinating concept, but I'm not being corny when I say permaculture at scale is not possible without communism. But in a home landscape, permaculture is actually very battle tested and feasible. There's a few ways you can garden in the city: container plants, community gardens, and guerilla gardening. I don't really recommend guerilla gardening. It's kind of a waste of time and the risk isn't worth the reward. I had container plantings in all my apartments. You can get LED grow lights for pretty cheap these days. They are energy efficient and LEDs can customize the light wavelengths for optimal growth and morphology, so your plants don't get leggy. Indoor light levels are not the best for many plants though. As light passes through a window, the actual quantum light particles are quartered as a rule of thumb. So full light through a window is not really full light even if it's a south facing window. So you'll want to stick with low light requiring plants. Basil does very well inside and requires low light for example. I'd recommend herb gardening in containers indoors. In the summer, it is great to move your containers outside onto a south or west facing balcony if possible too. Productive plants (like herbs or minor food crops, not houseplants) should always be situated in a south or west facing window when possible, but they might still need more light, so be prepared to drop some money on LEDs.
Community gardening is great too, but is more labor intensive. However, you can apply permaculture principles like intercropping in a plot. I always recommend trying the 3 sisters (corn, beans, squash) planting as an intro to principles of ecological design and intercropping. The best part about indoor gardening though is you don't have to go outside lmao, but community gardens are a great way to build relationships, solidarity, and friendship.
One thing people don't consider is the need for food preservation techniques either. I'm partial to fermentation but canning and jamming are fine too. You'll get a lot more food out of a simple garden plot than it's even possible to feasibly eat. So preservation is key.
Two books I'll highly recommend for a home gardener are "Gaia's Garden" a great permaculture book. Probably not as applicable for urban gardening though. And "the Art of Fermentation" a super interesting book about preservation and the science and cultural background it has.
Are there any open-source seed initiatives (I have heard that IP for plant genetics in farming is an absolute nightmare)?
lmfao I shit you not my professor literally started the open source seed initiative. https://osseeds.org/ It's a fucking awesome project. And don't even get me started on IP. But if you want an absolutely fantastic read about it: First the Seed by Jack Kloppenburg. My favorite book ever.
edit: holy shit they started a podcast! Hell yes!
https://osseeds.org/category/free-the-seed-podcast/
Wow this is very cool, thanks for doing this thread!
Somewhat related question, have you heard of the MIT "food computer" project? Do you think it could be useful to real people? Just a gimmick? Just a silicon valley ploy? I have been wanting to put one together, but as far as I can tell there are not really any people out there selling complete kits.
I'd never heard of it before. But after a cursory glance it looks really fucking cool tbh lol
I've done some paid gardening in my day as well. What kind of gardening do you do?
Currently I'm a landscape installer at a state university. I dig holes, build walls, install turf, and demo landscapes. Basically anything possible to make a landscape less sustainable than it already is. It's soul crushing and menial labor that doesn't utilize my plant science knowledge at all and kills my back. So I'm quitting next month and moving to Germany to start a Master's in Horticultural Science lol. Hbu?
Mostly done horticultural farming, like market gardens. And then I have a nice hobbyist landscape garden that I like to look after too .
I know that back-breaking, soul-crushing vibe, tho haha. Mad props for quitting and moving, comrade! I wish you the absolute best :D
I think I found a community garden I want to work in, but I've never gardened before and really want to grow garlic or maybe some other crop not sure honestly. What are some good crops for community gardens that are good for a beginner and what books or resources would you recommend for community gardening?
Squash will survive the Armageddon. We call that a TON plant. Thrives On Neglect. Don't grow Zucchini or yellow squash though. It's straight garbage. Acorn squash is delicious. Spaghetti squash is bomb. Butternut squash is super versatile. I'd say most importantly, you should grow things you actually will eat though. Everyone grows a million zucchinis but I don't know anyone that actually likes zucchini. They go to waste. If you only love tomatoes, then by god only grow tomatoes. I don't know of any good books tbh. I'd suggest making friends with a seasoned veteran and scheduling time to go help them with stuff in exchange for showing you the ropes and getting their advice.
https://www.almanac.com/vegetable-gardening-for-beginners There's a decent starter guide with basic principles. There's nothing specific to community gardening you really need to know. Just learn how to garden in general and you'll be fine. But maybe look into "mini farming." It's a decent book that covers a lot of what you need to know.
I don’t know anyone that actually likes zucchini
what's wrong with your friends
Is it possible to turn a profit gardening without the backing of a megacorp/subsidies?
Definitely. Weirdly enough there aren't really subsidies for vegetables, which is perfectly American. So competition actually isn't as punishing as you would expect for producing horticultural crops. And there is a big market for fresh farm grown produce. There are basically 3 models for independent gardening: farmer's market, CSA, and wholesale. IMO if you're going into it, you need to start a CSA. Farmer's markets are a time suck and I talked to a wholesale farmer who made 30k per year for basically managing a small labor army and business operation. I honestly couldn't believe it. I'd recommend "The Market Gardener" by Fortier as a book detailing the CSA approach. And "mini farming" was an interesting read too.
Hyperspecific but I’m interested in growing sunchokes but worried about their fartichoke rep. Are they as stomach-destroying as they’re claimed to be?
I've never had a sunchoke unfortunately, but I've definitely seen that reputation is well deserved due to the specific carb that the tubers contain. I'd still eat them and try them out for sure. But probably peel and cook them thoroughly first. Wish there was some surviving native recipes I could find for it. They probably had some prep technique that made it not as bad, so I would do some research in that direction.
How can I tell when my figs are ripe, and why do most of them never ripen and just rot?
I hate lawns and like edible herbs and stuff, do you know a good edible groundcover? I tried creeping thyme but it can't handle winter.
How old is the fig tree?
I like wild strawberry as a groundcover. It's vigorous but not aggressive.
It was a potted tree at my parents' for years. I planted it in my garden 5 years ago, it seems to like it here as it has tripled in size. It's the first year I get ripe fruit (4 figs now) but the color doesn't really change so I was wondering if I can maybe feel or smell when ripe.
Hmm sorry. I don't know anything about figs. Some fruit trees can produce more fruit than they can support and so they don't ripen, but doesn't sound like what's happening with yours :(
Have you followed the People's Garden in CHAZ/CHOP at all? If so, what's your perspective on it? If not, maybe more about guerilla/community gardening in general; How much does that soil really support anything? Can you really sustainably grow food in a park?
I just looked into it, but hadn't heard about it until now. Not really sure it's accomplishing what they think it is. I think people tend to fetishize the food production aspect of landscapes without realizing the other potentials for land usage. A park is a park. It should be used for recreation and most (not all) parks are designed and installed to alter the landscape in a way that makes it good for that purpose, and not designed to grow food. Looks like they tried a lasagna style bed too, which was poorly executed, but also a method I'm not really a fan of to begin with (disturbs site hydrology.) You could realistically grow food in a park. It's not the most efficient, not that it has to be necessarily, but I think the project looks like it could have used a more scientific approach. Overall, I don't hate it as a concept to administer land usage in a more desirable way for a community, but I think the fell prey to the productivist mindset that every acre must be a farm. It's just a matter of lack of knowledge and skills though, not necessarily a refutation of the underlying concept they're going for.
Thanks for your comment. Regarding your point about productivity: One one hand I agree completely, they're essentially colonizing the park in the name of decolonization - but on the other hand I really think it allows people partaking in the project to materially reaffirm their own agency as a historical actor, as someone who can effect lasting material change in their environment. But maybe they should rather be torching a cop car to get that? Not sure.
I understand what they wanted to do I guess. Food security is a major problem. But the resources they have at hand really aren't conducive to achieving anything meaningful in that regard. Parks have utility though. They could have done things to make it a more meaningful communal space too. But whatever. The CHAZ had my support. A poorly implemented garden wouldn't change that.
i got my first grapevine a week ago. i haven't set up a place for it yet so i have it next to my potted herbs. lately i've had grasshoppers or something just devouring my basil, grapevine, and strawberry (not my savory or oregano). i finally said fuck it and got some Sevin spray which seems like a real bad thing even though it worked. Any better suggestions for protecting them?
Pest control is a tough one without seeing the problem personally. Do you have a positive pest identification? What's your location? Do you see them on your plants every day or was it a once off thing? How bad is the foliage damage?
sorry for the delayed reply i was camping out of state. I have identified both aphids (the ants were herding them) and grasshopper nymphs. Lately some golden garden spiders have moved in and i call them my guard dogs. Location without being too specific is the Delmarva zone, low foothills. They were pretty consistently on the plants, but the grasshoppers showed up later. Leaves are full of holes, some have withered off, but plants still have some new growth. The vast majority of the leaves are holed but intact still.
The grape and strawberry’s will be fine with some foliage damage unless they’re very small and stressed. The go to for broad spectrum organic pesticides is neem oil though. Probably wouldn’t hurt to apply some adhering to the label directions.
