"Seek knowledge, even unto China" - Prophet Muhammad

As-salamu alaykum, chapos!

After consulting with the cyber Ulama we have decided to create an open thread where curious posters can take a break from the great posting jihad and ask questions on the nature of Islam or the Muslim experience. So long as they are asked in good faith, from a position of truly wanting to learn, these questions will be answered without judgement.

As for Muslims, all of us are free to answer any of the questions, even ones that have already been answered. This is an open thread, and the input of different Islamic perspectives is valuable to getting a big picture.

To all those reading this, remember: No one person is an authority on Islam. This is why it traditionally the din never had its own clergy. Always have this in mind when researching on Islam.

Alright, now GET TO ASKING!

  • Saif [he/him]
    ·
    4 years ago

    How was/is successorship to a Caliph determined/how is it deemed legitimate?

    Ah, the age-old question. How caliphial authority is determined is the basis of the Shia/Sunni split. To make a long story short, Sunnis believe that the caliphate was legitimated by the shura council that occurred after the Prophet's death, essentially a vote by community consensus which elected Abu Bakr as the next leader. Shi'is believe that the Prophet determined Ali, his cousin and son-in-law, as his heir and successor, and that the line should have passed down through his family.

    You would think, then, that it's a question of community election vs line of succession, but you would be wrong, because Abu Bakr's caliphate passed down to Umar because he designated him such. So then it's designation vs line of succession? No, because Umar divested a council to elect his successor before he died, who elected Uthman. So it's designated kingmaker council vs line of succession? No because after Uthman died there was a brief civil war and Uthman's family, the Ummaya, took up the Caliphate and turned it essentially into a kingship, a policy which all successive caliphates adopted and developed. So historically it's basically all been line of succession. However, since as we've established there's no single authority on Islam, theoretically one could, say, declare a democratic Islamic Caliphate, or a communist one, and you aren't really breaking any Islamic doctrine by doing so.

    Edit: forgot to add, yes, the priesthood of all believers concept is very comparable in this sense. Islam is a din that heavily emphasizes the equality of all people under God, and invoking the ability to interpret scripture as belonging to everyone equally is one of the ways it's manifested

    • REallyN [she/her,they/them]
      ·
      4 years ago

      However, since as we’ve established there’s no single authority on Islam, theoretically one could, say, declare a democratic Islamic Caliphate, or a communist one, and you aren’t really breaking any Islamic doctrine by doing so.

      So a Caliph/Caliphate today wouldn't really have to illustrate some kind of line or connection to the Prophet or his successor(s) to be a "legit" one? and it's more about the rulers relation to Islam and stuff and the first Caliph have that connection because Muhamad was trying to organize the new realm he had created?

      • Saif [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        Pretty much - I mean, the Ottomans had zero connection to the original lines of succession but were seen as Caliphs by many Muslims up to 1923. So yes theoretically you can create a Caliphate today, but it would be incredibly difficult to legitimize yourself in the eyes of most Muslims. You would probably need to control a lot of the land that was traditionally part of the first caliphates to even be considered one.

        Though most Shi'i would deny that it's a Caliphate at all unless you can somehow prove to the Twelver Shia that you are the Hidden Imam.