Maybe I wasn't here yet, but I don't remember exploding-heads users coming by the dozen to insult and taunt us on posts on our own instance. That's the behavior that has people up in arms about Hexbear. If instead they just made the occasional post in support of genocide to "own" the USA, I think there would be a lot less support for defederation.
I know it's rude to bring up a post from three years ago, but here you go. To Hexbear's collective credit, I couldn't quickly find someone on there supporting the Khmer Rouge.
Anyhow, the real problem is Hexbears' behavior.
So many Hexbears spilled into our instance -- this is not your instance, it's our instance -- posting disgusting images and oversized emotes, screaming insults at anyone who doesn't toe their party line ("call outs"), and trolling left, right and center. And I don't think this is the first time, either. There is no reason to believe that the majority of visiting Hexbears are willing to make constructive posts, and that's cause for defederation..
Sure. KiaKaha wrote the whole post to argue that keeping the Uyghur nation in prison camps and banning their culture was the humane solution to keeping the Tarim Basin, conquered 250 years ago by the Manchus in a war against the Dzungar Mongols, from rebelling against the heirs of the heirs of the Manchus.
The CPC could give up and surrender Xinjiang to ISIS. This option condemns millions of people to living under a fundamentalist Islamic State, including many non-Muslims and non-extreme Muslims. This option creates a CIA-aligned state on the border, and jeopardises a key part of the Belt and Road initiative, which is designed to connect landlocked countries for development and geopolitical positioning. This option also threatens the CPC’s legitimacy, as keeping China together is a historical signifier of the Mandate of Heaven.
The final option is the Chinese option. Mass surveillance. Use AI to liberally target anyone who may be at risk of radicalisation for re-education. Teach them the lingua franca of China, Mandarin. Pump money into the region for development. When people finish their time in re-education, set them up with state jobs. Keep the surveillance up. Allow and even celebrate local religious customs, but make sure the leaders are on-side with the party.
Let’s take a moment to distinguish that last approach from that of Nazi Germany. Nazi Germany wanted to exterminate the undesirables. Initially it was internment in concentration camps with the outcome up in the air, with a vague hope of shipping them to Madagascar or palestine, but it later morphed into full extermination. All throughout, Nazi Germany was pushing strong rhetoric of antisemitism and stoking ethnic hatred in the public sphere.
Mr. Xi also told officials to not discriminate against Uighurs and to respect their right to worship. He warned against overreacting to natural friction between Uighurs and Han Chinese, the nation’s dominant ethnic group, and rejected proposals to try to eliminate Islam entirely in China.
“In light of separatist and terrorist forces under the banner of Islam, some people have argued that Islam should be restricted or even eradicated,” he said during the Beijing conference. He called that view “biased, even wrong.”
we are getting all sorts of shit leaking into hexbear from your instance, why do you think we're so hostile. How have so many nazis been hiding on your instance
This. The overwhelming majority of content from exploding heads remained on exploding heads. Not only that, but there aren't that many active users there, so you really didn't see much from them anyway.
Maybe I wasn't here yet, but I don't remember exploding-heads users coming by the dozen to insult and taunt us on posts on our own instance. That's the behavior that has people up in arms about Hexbear. If instead they just made the occasional post in support of genocide to "own" the USA, I think there would be a lot less support for defederation.
what the fuck? show me one comment or post fucking anywhere on hexbear that supports genocide
is it supporting Saddam nuking people to dispute that he ever had nuclear weapons?
I know it's rude to bring up a post from three years ago, but here you go. To Hexbear's collective credit, I couldn't quickly find someone on there supporting the Khmer Rouge.
Anyhow, the real problem is Hexbears' behavior. So many Hexbears spilled into our instance -- this is not your instance, it's our instance -- posting disgusting images and oversized emotes, screaming insults at anyone who doesn't toe their party line ("call outs"), and trolling left, right and center. And I don't think this is the first time, either. There is no reason to believe that the majority of visiting Hexbears are willing to make constructive posts, and that's cause for defederation..
Okay now can you point to where users support genocide in that thread?
Sure. KiaKaha wrote the whole post to argue that keeping the Uyghur nation in prison camps and banning their culture was the humane solution to keeping the Tarim Basin, conquered 250 years ago by the Manchus in a war against the Dzungar Mongols, from rebelling against the heirs of the heirs of the Manchus.
Where? I'm not seeing it. Here's what @KiaKaha@hexbear.net wrote:
Approximately 50% of what you hear is outright propaganda, as we know the CIA’s affiliates churn out. We also see CIA assets pushing narratives on Reddit. The next 25% is poorly researched speculation by an evangelical end-timer, and the final 25% is an accurate description of the PRC’s response to far right, religious terrorism and separatism.
First, let’s just establish using safe, American sources that a bunch of Uyghur people went to fight with ISIS in Syria, then returned. Let’s also establish that there have been consistent terrorist attacks with significant casualties and that the CIA and CIA front-groups have funded and stoked Islamic extremism across the world for geopolitical gain.
Now, we need to consider potential responses.
The CPC could give up and surrender Xinjiang to ISIS. This option condemns millions of people to living under a fundamentalist Islamic State, including many non-Muslims and non-extreme Muslims. This option creates a CIA-aligned state on the border, and jeopardises a key part of the Belt and Road initiative, which is designed to connect landlocked countries for development and geopolitical positioning. This option also threatens the CPC’s legitimacy, as keeping China together is a historical signifier of the Mandate of Heaven.
The next option is the American option. Drone strike, black-site, or otherwise liquidate anyone who could be associated with Islamic extremism. Be liberal in doing so. Make children fear blue skies because of drones. When the orphaned young children grow up, do it all again. You can also throw a literal man-made famine in there if you want.
The final option is the Chinese option. Mass surveillance. Use AI to liberally target anyone who may be at risk of radicalisation for re-education. Teach them the lingua franca of China, Mandarin. Pump money into the region for development. When people finish their time in re-education, set them up with state jobs. Keep the surveillance up. Allow and even celebrate local religious customs, but make sure the leaders are on-side with the party.
Let’s take a moment to distinguish that last approach from that of Nazi Germany. Nazi Germany wanted to exterminate the undesirables. Initially it was internment in concentration camps with the outcome up in the air, with a vague hope of shipping them to Madagascar or palestine, but it later morphed into full extermination. All throughout, Nazi Germany was pushing strong rhetoric of antisemitism and stoking ethnic hatred in the public sphere.
There’s no evidence, including from leaked papers, that the goal of the deradicalisation programme is permanent internment or annihilation of Islam. In fact, the leaked papers have Xi explicitly saying Islam should not be annihilated from China:
As for permanent internment, we know from leaks that the minimum duration of detention is one year — though accounts from ex-detainees suggest that some are released sooner.
Unlike Nazi Germany, there’s no stoking of inter-ethnic hatred or elimination of a specific culture; the CPC actively censors footage from terrorist attacks in China to avoid such an outcome. Xi doesn’t go on TV calling any ethnicity rapists or murderers. Uighur culture is actively celebrated in the media and via tourism. Xinjiang has 24,400 mosques, one per 530 Muslims. That’s three mosques per capita more than their western peers.
Could China’s approach be done better? Almost certainly. Is it the most humane response to extremism we’ve seen so far? That’s for you to decide.
(Reposted from here )
So no one supports genocide then? Got it.
No, that does meet the standard of genocide. Not the "killed them all and threw them in mass graves" version but that's not the only way it can come.
What you're doing is trivializing actual genocide
we are getting all sorts of shit leaking into hexbear from your instance, why do you think we're so hostile. How have so many nazis been hiding on your instance
Yeah thats a fair point. Hexbear is harder to ignore
This. The overwhelming majority of content from exploding heads remained on exploding heads. Not only that, but there aren't that many active users there, so you really didn't see much from them anyway.