I also hate 99% of grafittis because most are just a big autofellatio, wasting even more space than tags but equally pointless. I don't give a shit what's your stupid nickname, draw/write something cool you idiot.

    • RNAi [he/him]
      14·
      4 years ago

      Eh, the people I saw tagging are middle class.

      What about tags on trains, transit stations, public parks/hospitals/schools/etx? Go take a shit on some rich dude's property, not this

      I'm just asking for people to make a little doodle instead of a signature. That's enough

      • ckm [he/him]
        1·
        4 years ago

        Look into the grafitti tagged NYC trains of the 70s — grafitti used to be one of the 5 elements of hiphop and was a way for the people to express themselves (see The Message by Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five). I'm not saying that what you're seeing now is the same thing, but grafitti can serve a purpose

              • Marsala [they/them]
                ·
                4 years ago

                The rebellion is obviously targeted at the authoritarian state which claims the right to decide how everything looks. Huge fucking billboards everywhere? Sure, why not, it makes someone money so it's cool. A bombing is a claim to the public space. It's anarchist - pieces can be crossed at any time, but they are not. Because writers have rules everyone agrees on, without police enforcing them. Get a load of graffiti culture, it's fucking amazing. Except the very problematic machismo tho

        • RNAi [he/him]
          ·
          4 years ago

          Yeah, probably the central problem is that graffitis culture is kinda "foreign" to my city, imported from yank pop culture.

          As I said, the graffiters I know are bougies.

        • RNAi [he/him]
          7·
          4 years ago

          Don't shit on the trains.

            • RNAi [he/him]
              4·
              4 years ago

              I saw good and bad examples.

              And I have been on trains which for some reason people destroyed three years after buying new formations, and some other lines are impecable with +50 yo formations

        • Shinji_Ikari [he/him]
          14·
          4 years ago

          It does take money out of the precious limited train budgets to clean them up, especially when they paint over windows which is a hazard in an emergency situation.

          Its sorta like the broken window fallacy(not broken window policing), that doing something bad(ie breaking a window for a glass person and carpenter to replace) doesn't make a job have more of a purpose by giving them something to do, but actually hurt the budget and possibly cause positions to be lost.

          edit: Dang, I'm not talking about the broken window theory of policing areas. I'm talking about those dudes who tag the sides of metro trains, all the way up to huge organized whole car paint jobs. Everyone loves trains till they got nicknames on em. All these downbears for defending the trains.

          • ckm [he/him]
            ·
            4 years ago

            Isn't the broken window fallacy famous for being a bad study nevermind I'm thinking of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory

      • GothWhitlam [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        Our trains are full of adds, on almost every surface. I'd prefer the tags to the ads and double that for tags on ads.

        Ads are junk, they provide nothing to us, and for our subsidised and still 'private' rail companies they just add more to private pockets.

        Edit: spelling

          • GothWhitlam [he/him]
            ·
            4 years ago

            It's an interesting point your trying to make there. As I said, our transport system has been privatised, but at the same time is heavily subsidised by the state, to the point that it would be cheaper for the state to collect fairs and run the system (which we can't do now apparently because it would interfere with the free market).

            This might be different elsewhere, but here in Australia most public transport has subsided the loss and provitised the profits. These ads do not contribute to the running of the transport, they simply turn profit for the owners of the trains. It has nothing to do with "not run without profit".

            Saying that tags and ads are on the same level is an interesting argument given that information. Assuming they are both 'bad' (which I don't), one of these bad things profits a multinational corporation and is an eyesore, the other may simply be considered an eyesore (again, not my opinion).

            Tags are never as bad as advertising, and are absolutely reclamation of public space from corporations.

            TL;DR Trains good, cars bad, tags good, advertising bad.

              • GothWhitlam [he/him]
                ·
                4 years ago

                I can see where you're coming from, but I think we're having a fundamentally different view of what a tag is doing.

                You continue to use words like 'destroy' - it is clear that you feel tags somehow reduce the function of public transport, which I don't think they do.

                In the case of graffiti, whether tags or not, my argument is they have as much of a right to be there as advertisements. I don't see them as an eyesore, but even if they were they are equally valid as the ads on the wall, posts, and backs of seats.

                As you mentioned, without going in to specific examples of public transport the argument as to whether the profit goes to improving the service is valid, but I can only say from experience (working in state government) that the profits from ours go nowhere but the pockets of the corporate owners. The state pays for everything, and it's a well known rort.

                Clearly were at loggerheads. I believe tags are valid, good and cause no harm to the train, and are certainly more valid than the ads and have a place there. I also like how tags look. You don't like how they look, and therefore believe they should be gone. There is really nothing I can say to convince you, and that's ok. This probs shouldn't be the biggest cause for division on the website.