A while ago I talked about the Dutch socdem coalition Green/Labour and their party programme, which included a two state solution for Palestina, more money to NATO among other things.
Today the far right party FVD made their programme available, and it includes.... peace talks between Russia and Ukraine, deprofitization of healthcare, political asylum to Assange and Snowden (not Manning, though, she's trans after all), removal from EU and NATO.
MFW a far right party has LESS imperialist talking point than the 'hope of the left' lmao. Don't get me wrong, there's still fascist talks of anti-LGBTQ+ stuff and all. But fucking hell Dutch left get your shit together.
It's unfortunately common and has been going on for a while. As "left" parties abandon the class struggle or anti-imperialism the far-right picks it up. What differentiates socdem parties from liberal parties these days? At least the liberals are consistent. The socdems will stab you in the back and claim they're doing acupuncture. They have nothing special that sets them apart, they're like all other parties with the same policies (austerity is good for you sweaty 😊 type), they're just marginally better sometimes when they feel like it.
And it's a failure of communist parties in Europe too to have been coopted by this same milquetoast brain rot after 1991 and abandoning all revolutionary points. Now for the most part we serve to bring the socdems, who have bigger parties, back to the left when they want to liberalize something.
Had socdems yell at me because I am not going to vote on the Dutch Green/Labour coalition saying I'm some sort of traitor. Like, what point of me being against NATO don't you understand lol. 'Yeah but you have to sometimes make concessions you know!' Fuck off, maybe YOU should have some actual views for once .
They could just ignore NATO in their party programme, but no, instead they clamoured for more funding.
https://nltimes.nl/2023/07/17/left-wing-parties-pvda-groenlinks-vote-team-november-election
Almost 92 percent of GroenLinks members voted in favor of teaming up with Labor. Over 87 percent of Labor members agreed with the proposal
LOL, it’s not even like the vote was contentious if I’m reading this right
Don't forget that it's the far-right. They are extreme demagogues, they will easily backtrack on any policy they currently defend.
Somehow I knew what this post was going to say before I even read it.
Manning's sentence was commuted, she'll be fine.
But I dont believe much of the economic rhetoric of the right ends up being implemented after elections. After all they're allies of the capital.
It's textbook fascism to claim leftist talking points but it's wild to see it in real life now. And how the left is sitting the bed with it, with their MORE NATOOOOOO!!! sentiment.
The right has been wrapping their fascism is leftwing talking points from the outset. See NSDAP.
that is incredibility dangerous. i watch a guy that consistently says that the european fascists are the nationalism vanguard, criticizing the war and so on, while the progressive field (moderate right to lib left) gave up completely on nationalism are uncritically supporting every bs usa puts then to, like supporting the war while european economy goes to shit.
now im seeing his claims be confirmed.
According to them LGBT politics is the litmus test for morally right or wrong
i mean, kind of? yes? but it's not like be all end all either. supporting queer rights and being anti-imperialist aren't mutually exclusive. i don't get why they don't understand this.
what do you mean by "LGBT agenda" then? because that's reich-wing language you're using.
also, no one said anything about NGOizing queer rights or combining it with neoliberalism - i was talking about the western left/commie parties.
but they associate LGBT with pro neoliberal parties that’s the problem .
religious bias can also come to play. orthochristians especially aren't known to be the most supportive when it comes to queer rights. i swear, there's probably like 1 progressive orthochristians for every 100,000 progressive muslims, that's how fucking reactionary it comes off as.
Whatever, I don't have neither time and energy to spend with an inobservant, stupid piece of shit infiltrator like you. All I will say is this: If you've been even remotely observant, you'll notice that I literally come from the fucking Global South - same place where you're from. Matter of fact, I still am in a global southern country; and neither is English my first language. Sorry that not everyone in the global south behaves and acts in the exact same fucking manner as you do, that is being a dogmatic, bigoted goddamn reactionary that wants to "annhilate" all queer people.
Not a single thing you've listed is in any way shape or form related to our argument. But then again, reactionaries like you weren't born with a brain, but a fucking projector.
About Muslims: You haven't met shit. I personally know some muslims who are all in on queer rights. Also, "Western LGBT Movement" lmao, goes to show you how well you know about Queer History. Westerners have been the ones to kill off queer culture in the global south in the past, sweetie.
Also, today I learnt Marxism is when you dominate GSRM people. Good to know. I fucking knew I shouldn't have tried to maintain a facade of nice and civility when dealing with scum like you. At this point I'm convinced anyone who's even remotely critical of queer movements and rights in any way shape or form is a fucking reactionary infiltrator hiding behind a cover. So thank you so much for showing me the light. Do all of us a favor and never show your filthy fash-bootlicking fucking face here ever again.
Scratch a "critic of queer rights" and a reactionary shows his face. So much for me "living in my own bubble".
I think they mainly took offense to your use of "LGBT Agenda" which is a very common far right and reactionary dogwhistle. I don't know if you meant it in that way but a lot of people on here are queer, and it can be pretty offensive to go slinging that stuff around. Simple clarification on what you meant when you said that was all that was needed, not a shit slinging contest.
I go by she/her. That feeling when you literally put out your pronouns but people still they/them you.
I’m not the person you’re replying to, and I don’t mean any offense, but isn’t it pretty general form to interchangeably refer to people as they/them in conversations when referring to that person non-directly no matter the pronouns? Unless they directly tell you to not do that and you keep doing it of course.
But something kind of like, “Oh, they left their phone here”, “I should ask them what they think”, “I think they’re opinion is different”.
Again, I apologize and I don’t mean any offense, but I’ve had the question for a while and it would be nice to clear it up to not make a mistake if I’ve been making one.
If someone's pronouns are known, use them. To do otherwise is disrespectful.
That makes sense and it wouldn’t be hard for me to do, but it might be a cultural thing, but where I am people use they/them for absolutely everyone unless requested by the person or directly specified, or they’ll use their pronouns and they/them interchangeably.
But I see what you’re trying to say, I hope I don’t come across as dismissive or not agreeing.
I've just seen too many bigots say they/them for trans people because they are too bigoted to correctly gender the trans person, but don't want to seem bigoted. I'm going to assume you're acting in good faith, so please be aware that using they/them when you know someone's pronouns is still misgendering.
Of course, I understand what you mean. It does seem like a sneaky way to be transphobic without being overt about it.
I was actually a bit confused about that when I first heard that being a problem, and I was also a bit confused by reactionaries crying that they/them isn’t grammatically correct or whining about “being forced to use they/them”, because when I say that where I am it’s used for everyone, it’s used for EVERYONE, even if their pronouns are known. Cis, trans, non-binary, AMAB, AFAB, neo-pronouns, it doesn’t matter, everyone is “they/them” lmao. Only caveat is if the person asks you to not use that, or use something else instead, then it’s seen as rude or bad form to keep going with the they/them.
But I definitely see what you mean, and while it’s so ingrained and common I’ll probably keep doing that in real life, I can definitely try to avoid using they/them online.
Thanks for the explanation!
I apologize, I didn't see your name, mainly just read your comment. It's a force of habit for me online to use "they" for anyone online. I don't mean to use "they" as an assumption of one's gender or preferred pronoun, its just force of habit grammatically in my speech where I am from. Although I must admit it's a little sad that when I try and educate someone on their own reactionary terminology I myself end up on the receiving end. Shows everyone's got something to learn.
It is definitely infuriating that the mainstream queer movement has been hijacked by liberals but the queer community is not to blame for this.
That’s not what they’re focusing on. They’re talking about how your views of the LGBT community are comparable to those of fascist, and you’ve been belittling and insulting people the whole thread.
Also yes, when a person weirdly uses queer 6 times in a bizarre post, that looks very similar to what reactionaries do, because they use it as a slur.
perhaps there's still a little hope left with Bij1 if Rebekka takes over. they were the only ones alongside Forum to vote in favour of a motion for independent inquiry into the Nord Stream 2 attacks. however a couple months later they did vote in favour of declaring the soviet famine a genocide so I wouldn't put that much money on them being sufficient anytime soon.
It's been like this ever since the First World War, especially now. It is the right-wing—not the left-wing—that is interested in economic self-sufficiency and derailing away from the transatlantic partnership. This is the case, especially in Germany, where many people are upset with the transatlantic status quo and are voting for parties, like the Alternative for Germany (AfD), instead.
I thought that AfD is rapidly gaining popularity among the masses because the party calls for a more independent foreign policy away from NATO, such as re-strengthening relationships with Russia and China, as well as distancing Germany from the US. Please excuse me if I am mistaken.
